Give non-members a chance to bid Thread poster: Paul Dixon
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Paul Dixon 
Brazil
Local time: 17:44
Portuguese to English
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In memoriam
I suggest that non-members must always be given a chance to bid. The current system largely excludes non-members from the market, either by making the jobs members-only or by closing them before opening to non-members (eg stating 'Members only in the first 12 hours' and then closing the job after one hour).
And payment for job bids via BrowniZ must be brought back.
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:44
English to Russian
| I wish it was true | Jul 24, 2021 |
There is a "company" (proz.com) that sells its "product" (privileged access to jobs). Are you serious in dictating them how they must conduct their business? It sounds pretty naive. With the same effect you can demand any other paid service site to render their services for free. Non-paying passengers must always be given a chance to get a flight. Non-paying telephone subscribers must always be given a chance to call their cousin in Australia. Your non-paying clients must always be given ... See more There is a "company" (proz.com) that sells its "product" (privileged access to jobs). Are you serious in dictating them how they must conduct their business? It sounds pretty naive. With the same effect you can demand any other paid service site to render their services for free. Non-paying passengers must always be given a chance to get a flight. Non-paying telephone subscribers must always be given a chance to call their cousin in Australia. Your non-paying clients must always be given a chance to exploit you for free. Nice but obviously not possible. Charity is always voluntary.
[Edited at 2021-07-24 19:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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To be fair, suddenly deciding not to honour BrowniZ was a bit dishonourable.
Paul, why not just become a member? It’s only a hundred quid and you can get a refund when it doesn’t meet your expectations.
| | | | esperantisto
Local time: 23:44
Member (2006)
English to Russian
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SITE LOCALIZER | Not the system | Jul 30, 2021 |
Paul Dixon wrote:
The current system largely excludes non-members from the market…
No, the system does not exclude anyone, it just provides an option. Job posters do it on their sole discretion (which is explained in the FAQ), the same way as they can apply other restrictive criteria such as country of residence or software.
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Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:44
English to Russian
| Not active enough | Jul 31, 2021 |
Ice Scream wrote:
To be fair, suddenly deciding not to honour BrowniZ...
Over 10+ years with proz, never heard of Browniz before and was surprised to know that, according to FAQ, it is "a measure of 'helpfulness' or 'activity level'". With my 300+ Browniz, need to be more active I suppose 
| | | | Erzsébet Czopyk
Hungary
Local time: 21:44
Member (2006)
Russian to Hungarian
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SITE LOCALIZER | I always restrict my jobs to paying members | May 25, 2022 |
ProZ.com is an investment for the paying members which shall be compensated by the amount of work received via the site. restricting my jobs is a decision to give a job to those who invested in their visibility (paying members).
See how the system sunk. How the KudoZ sunk. How non-paying members use the site - like they are on Facebook.
I would give a significant discount for the first year but no one gave us a discount 15 years ago.
To maintain the site is a huge work. They ha... See more ProZ.com is an investment for the paying members which shall be compensated by the amount of work received via the site. restricting my jobs is a decision to give a job to those who invested in their visibility (paying members).
See how the system sunk. How the KudoZ sunk. How non-paying members use the site - like they are on Facebook.
I would give a significant discount for the first year but no one gave us a discount 15 years ago.
To maintain the site is a huge work. They have taxes to be paid, salaries, office costs.
There is no breakfast for free.
And I was a beginner and we all were beginners... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 21:44
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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| Landlord and the tenant. | May 26, 2022 |
Since when does a tenant decides on the rent terms and how it will be charged?
We used to rent an apartment and would occasionally get silly requests such as “I will be on vacation in August, may I get a discount for the month of August?” LOL. No, you may not.
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 15:44
Japanese to English
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| Non-members bidding | May 26, 2022 |
If the "jobs" offered on proz.com were worthwhile, I would again become a member. Most are from bottom-feeding agencies who have no respect for translators. So many bids, so few jobs garnered. Non-members are not stingy, they have just wised up. Better to go after direct clients.
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| Paying vs non-paying members | May 26, 2022 |
ProZ is a business and they set their rules, which is this instance is simply providing an option (enabled by default, I think) for posters to restrict a job to paying members. In pairs with a fair amount of competition, this can also help safely reduce the number of responders.
However, the rhetoric against non-paying members as freeloaders and amateurs is disingenuous.
Many non-paying members have been paying ones in the past (myself included) and might be again in th... See more ProZ is a business and they set their rules, which is this instance is simply providing an option (enabled by default, I think) for posters to restrict a job to paying members. In pairs with a fair amount of competition, this can also help safely reduce the number of responders.
However, the rhetoric against non-paying members as freeloaders and amateurs is disingenuous.
Many non-paying members have been paying ones in the past (myself included) and might be again in the future.
And many non-paying members participating in the Forums and in KudoZ actually enrich the content and bring additional user/community engagement. In that sense, in addition to being potential customers, they are also providing value to ProZ, just as users generate value to Facebook.
I don't say they should dictate the rules, but they may ask for enhancements (even tenants can negotiate with landlords, although the example is not very fitting I think) just as paying members do.
I don't support the OP suggestion, by the way. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 00:44
English to Arabic
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Michael Newton wrote:
If the "jobs" offered on proz.com were worthwhile, I would again become a member. Most are from bottom-feeding agencies who have no respect for translators. So many bids, so few jobs garnered. Non-members are not stingy, they have just wised up. Better to go after direct clients.
From a past paid-membership-experience, I can safely say the balance of power here on ProZ is geared towards everyone but individual providers.
Hence, what is the point? Paid membership for the individual provider to get played with 24/7 by loads of tricksters on the job board?
| | | | | [ASIDE:] refund or renew? | May 26, 2022 |
Ice Scream wrote:
To be fair, suddenly deciding not to honour BrowniZ was a bit dishonourable.
Paul, why not just become a member? It’s only a hundred quid and you can get a refund when it doesn’t meet your expectations.
Maybe a matter for another thread, but this post provokes this question:
When can you get the refund, Ice Scream? I'm coming close to the end of my first year (bought a promo membership last June) and have yet to recoup my investment. I'm in Mexico and earn in pesos. It's a big decision.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 15:44
Spanish to English
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| In the end, it's all about the big picture | Jun 2, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote:
Michael Newton wrote:
If the "jobs" offered on proz.com were worthwhile, I would again become a member. Most are from bottom-feeding agencies who have no respect for translators. So many bids, so few jobs garnered. Non-members are not stingy, they have just wised up. Better to go after direct clients.
From a past paid-membership-experience, I can safely say the balance of power here on ProZ is geared towards everyone but individual providers.
Hence, what is the point? Paid membership for the individual provider to get played with 24/7 by loads of tricksters on the job board?
I find it hard to disagree with the points in this exchange. As regards the Jobs Board, paid membership essentially earns you the right to fight over (mostly) bottom-feeding jobs (and within the context of a buyer's market where there is always someone willing to do the work for even less than whatever modest fee you might propose).
But - it might be objected - what about the exposure one gets as a member that leads to those coveted personally directed offers in private e-mails? Well, a good number of such private e-mails are nothing more than impersonal mass mailings conveying offers governed by the same dynamic as the general run of Jobs Board postings.
Yes, there are other membership benefits that might lead a given translator to conclude that the annual fee is worth it: participation in the Certified Pro Program; the privilege of immediately posting on the Forums; boundless limits to ask questions on Kudoz; a higher profile in the directories; special member discounts on the array of CAT tools advertised here.
In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves if all the relevant factors justify the annual membership fee.
[Edited at 2022-06-04 03:17 GMT]
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Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:44
English to Russian
| Bottom-feeding agencies | Jun 2, 2022 |
Michael Newton wrote:
If the "jobs" offered on proz.com were worthwhile, I would again become a member. Most are from bottom-feeding agencies who have no respect for translators. A "bottom-feeding agency" that I found here 1.5 years ago gave me a five grand bonus, in addition to my regular compensation, along with their apologies for their forced end of cooperation. Yesterday I completed a test task and was approved for a long-term partnership project. I wish I could extend my membership but I don't think I can do it now because of all the restrictions.
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 00:44
English to Arabic
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Robert Forstag wrote:
Yes, there are other membership benefits that might lead a given translator to conclude that the annual fee is worth it: participation in the Certified Pro Program; the privilege of immediately posting on the Forums; boundless limits to ask questions on Kudoz; a higher profile in the directories; special member discounts on the array of CAT tools advertised here.
In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves whether a careful consideration of all the relevant factors justifies the annual membership fee.
[Edited at 2022-06-02 19:08 GMT]
To each their own, yes.
But, the fact remains that those features are not money-generating and -more importantly- have replacements elsewhere on the internet.
An earlier suggestion of mine for ProZ to dip its toes into direct project-outsourcing wasn't just for the benefit of providers, but also for that of ProZ, because at some point every provider will ask themselves "are those non money-generating features really worth the money I'm paying?" and might just decide they're not. We have seen it, and it just continues to happen. So, a better business model for ProZ would be "provide money and get money" instead of just sitting and waiting for newcomers who are trying their luck on ProZ for the first time. Just saying.
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