| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | A Proz.com member delivered a machine translated project Thread poster: Fernando Larrazabal
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| Complete disagreement! | Feb 13, 2009 |
Peter Bouillon wrote:
But I'd like to point out that real hard money is involved in the Kudoz game: Higher Kudos counts translate into higher placements in translator lists, which in turn translates into higher probabilities to be retained. Thus there is a monetary incentive to devise strategies for getting high Kudoz counts, ethic strategies and other ones.
Sorry Peter, but anybody who is active in Kudoz knows who of the people appearing in the Kudoz leaders list does offer useful help and who responds at random. Anybody sufficiently interested can divide the number of points between the number of answers.
On top of that, an outsourcer is most likely to do a translation test even to people who are at the top of the Kudoz list. No critical business advantage is gained by being at the top of the Kudoz list. Defending your work as a quality translator takes A LOT more than that.
AND... anybody suspecting an illicit or incorrect behaviour in Kudoz should report it to Proz's staff and should show proof of such a behaviour. Anything else is plain insulting to the people who make an effort everyday to help colleagues in Kudoz.
| | | | legalads
India
Local time: 01:12
English to Hindi
+ ...
| You must be new in this profession! | Feb 13, 2009 |
It is immaterial, whether MT was used or what? Whether it is a high quality or else?
In my opinion, you should answer on below points to yourself.
This can’t be a business way. You must be new in this business!
1] Even though if a translator holds the best WWA entries; no client gives a job without test (I believe that, they should be knowing how these entries can be manipulated)
2) If the translator is new to you then, how you handed over the job, without a “style g... See more It is immaterial, whether MT was used or what? Whether it is a high quality or else?
In my opinion, you should answer on below points to yourself.
This can’t be a business way. You must be new in this business!
1] Even though if a translator holds the best WWA entries; no client gives a job without test (I believe that, they should be knowing how these entries can be manipulated)
2) If the translator is new to you then, how you handed over the job, without a “style guide”, “transliteration list” and “not to translate list”.
3) No client pays so hurriedly, at least before a proofread! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kristina Radziulyte 
Lithuania
Local time: 21:42
Member (2006)
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
MODERATOR | The question is... | Feb 13, 2009 |
Does the payment relieve from responsibility for the quality of job?
If yes, then when I'm paid up-front, does it mean I'm free to transfer my translation duties to my 5-year-old niece (=machine translator), and when the Client complains, may I respond "No big deal, it's just the matter of style. Besides, you've already paid, so it's not my business anymore"?
I mean, surely the outsourcer did a mistake by paying so fast, but c'mon, the translation was faulty! I can't understa... See more Does the payment relieve from responsibility for the quality of job?
If yes, then when I'm paid up-front, does it mean I'm free to transfer my translation duties to my 5-year-old niece (=machine translator), and when the Client complains, may I respond "No big deal, it's just the matter of style. Besides, you've already paid, so it's not my business anymore"?
I mean, surely the outsourcer did a mistake by paying so fast, but c'mon, the translation was faulty! I can't understand why some of you say it was entirely outsourcer's fault and the translator is not responsible for what happened. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 20:42
French to German
+ ...
I would like the title of the thread to be changed.
Proz members in the plural form is inaccurate, to say the least!
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-02-13 13:17 GMT]
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| Entirely agree | Feb 13, 2009 |
Kristina Radziulyte wrote:
Does the payment relieve from responsibility for the quality of job?
If yes, then when I'm paid up-front, does it mean I'm free to transfer my translation duties to my 5-year-old niece (=machine translator), and when the Client complains, may I respond "No big deal, it's just the matter of style. Besides, you've already paid, so it's not my business anymore"?
I mean, surely the outsourcer did a mistake by paying so fast, but c'mon, the translation was faulty! I can't understand why some of you say it was entirely outsourcer's fault and the translator is not responsible for what happened.
Completely agree with this. We are responsible of our work as long as nobody else edited it. Even if we are paid upfront or on delivery, it is our duty to immediately fix any factual problem at no extra cost, or even offer an accommodation in case of errors out of carelessness.
| | | | Kristina Radziulyte
Lithuania
Local time: 21:42
Member (2006)
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
MODERATOR | Title change needed | Feb 13, 2009 |
ScottishWildCat wrote:
I would like the title of the thread to be changed.
Proz members in the plural form is inaccurate, to say the least!
Laurent K.
I agree, the title should be changed.
| | | | gianfranco
Brazil
Local time: 16:42
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Title changed | Feb 13, 2009 |
I changed the title from plural to singular. In this case we are discussing indeed an isolated incident.
Gianfranco
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gianfranco wrote:
I changed the title from plural to singular. In this case we are discussing indeed an isolated incident.
Gianfranco
Thanks a lot!
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Bentext
Germany
Local time: 20:42
Member (2003)
English to German
+ ...
| Sad but true... | Feb 13, 2009 |
Peter Bouillon wrote:
But I'd like to point out that real hard money is involved in the Kudoz game: Higher Kudos counts translate into higher placements in translator lists, which in turn translates into higher probabilities to be retained. Thus there is a monetary incentive to devise strategies for getting high Kudoz counts, ethic strategies and other ones.
It may be sad for honest Kudoz participants like Tomás but I definitely believe you're right. I agree with you in all points.
The good news is that any professional outsourcer knows how much stock he has to take in the Kudoz ranking - as well as in so-called "certifications" from profit-orientated organizations like the ProZ.com Certified PRO program and the SDL Trados certifications.
Cheers,
Stéphane
| | | | | I'm sorry this happened to you | Feb 13, 2009 |
I think there are two lessons to be learnt from this.
First of all Proz is not perfect, the Blue Board, Kudoz points and WWA are useful guides, but cannot work 100%.
Secondly: You should never give a big job to a translator who is new to you. Always allow for the possibility that they will not be up to scratch and the job might have to be redone.
I do not criticize your prompt payment policy though. I think that is a wonderful quality in a translation agenc... See more I think there are two lessons to be learnt from this.
First of all Proz is not perfect, the Blue Board, Kudoz points and WWA are useful guides, but cannot work 100%.
Secondly: You should never give a big job to a translator who is new to you. Always allow for the possibility that they will not be up to scratch and the job might have to be redone.
I do not criticize your prompt payment policy though. I think that is a wonderful quality in a translation agency and it will pay off in the long run, helping you to earn the loyalty of those good reliable translators you want to keep on working with.
I hope this was a small job, in which case, you have paid to learn that this translator is not for you and the translator has lost the chance of having a good client through his or her lack of professionalism. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What software did the translator use? | Feb 13, 2009 |
Anyone has an idea what program produced the following amusing samples of this 'matter of style' job? (Original English text followed by the 'French translation')
Thomas G. Lane
Thomas G. Ruelle (voie).
Joan L. Mitchell
Jeanne L. Mitchell
example.c
Exemple.c
Price US$59.95,
Valorisez en US$59.95,
GO CIS:GRAPHSUP
ALLEZ CIS:GRAPHSUP
Service Mark property of CompuServe Incorporated.
u... See more Anyone has an idea what program produced the following amusing samples of this 'matter of style' job? (Original English text followed by the 'French translation')
Thomas G. Lane
Thomas G. Ruelle (voie).
Joan L. Mitchell
Jeanne L. Mitchell
example.c
Exemple.c
Price US$59.95,
Valorisez en US$59.95,
GO CIS:GRAPHSUP
ALLEZ CIS:GRAPHSUP
Service Mark property of CompuServe Incorporated.
une propriété de Marque de Service de CompuServe S.A. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sara Senft
United States
Local time: 14:42
Spanish to English
+ ...
I have noticed the same thing. When I disagree, I am civil about it.
I wish this were the case with more, or all, language pairs.
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
[In the case of Kudoz into Spanish, anybody can easily see that people who often agree also often express disagreements in a professional and friendly manner.
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| So where do we disagree? | Feb 13, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Sorry Peter, but anybody who is active in Kudoz knows who of the people appearing in the Kudoz leaders list does offer useful help and who responds at random. Anybody sufficiently interested can divide the number of points between the number of answers.
My point exactly. It is not the naked numbers that count. There's nothing wrong with participating in KudoZ, as long as it isn't taken as a mechanic, automatic, infallible shortcut way of assessing translator aptitude. Some human interpretation is still needed. And the same is true for all the other indicators, such as WWA entries.
This thread started out with an agency assuming that a translator must automatically hand in high-class work due to the fact that a number of WWA entries were next his name. Well, my position to that was - and is - that all such clues must be treated with some reserve and put into an overall perspective.
There is no shortcut to making up your mind yourself, and some risk remains that can't be mitigated.
Peter
[Bearbeitet am 2009-02-13 17:25 GMT]
| | | | NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 14:42
French to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | Don't know the software | Feb 13, 2009 |
...but these are errors, and not a matter of style. And the currency string is not in the right format... 59,95$ (not to mention Valorisez en... this definitely smells of MT to me.)
I'm sorry this happened to you.
Nancy
[Edited at 2009-02-13 15:19 GMT]
| | | | | Several points from the outsourcer | Feb 13, 2009 |
Text test?
The translator was not going to be “smart” enough to send a machine translation for a test.
I don't think a 300-word sample test will really show a translator's quality. I wouldn't outsource 50k words to somebody I haven’t work with before but this job contained around 3600 words.
The rate was not cheap, above average.
Request the money back? Of course, we did that.
But why should the translator give us the money back if it was just a... See more Text test?
The translator was not going to be “smart” enough to send a machine translation for a test.
I don't think a 300-word sample test will really show a translator's quality. I wouldn't outsource 50k words to somebody I haven’t work with before but this job contained around 3600 words.
The rate was not cheap, above average.
Request the money back? Of course, we did that.
But why should the translator give us the money back if it was just a matter of style?
In this case, rather than the money, the important fact was that somebody had been caught red-handed committing a crime and refused to accept it. Does it say something about the human condition?
The translator doesn’t claim to follow ProZ.com Professional Guidelines but has positive feedback and WWA from outsourcers.
Getting direct feedback from the WWA outsourcers. We expected the translator to consider what would happen if we told our experience to the companies she works/has worked for before.
The payment was so quick because I happened to be doing some transfer on the PayPal account when the translated file arrived. I can expect to get a translation that needs to be reviewed and corrected but not an outright cheat as this one was coming from someone with a university degree on translation and allegedly good references.
I originally wrote "A Proz member ..." as the title but changed it at the last moment. In fact, it got the expect effect: more members thought the topic was including them. My apologies. ▲ Collapse
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