| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | How available do we have to be? 24/7? Thread poster: Sheila Wilson
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 22:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Supermarkets are sometimes open 24/7 nowadays, and that's certainly the trend: longer opening hours, more availability, more flexibility. But a supermarket is staffed by tens, or even hundreds, of employees, all working a normal working week, albeit at abnormal times of day, with overtime on offer if wished. At least, that's what I imagine, but I don't know anyone who works in a supermarket. Are they supposed to be available 24/7?
Just how available can we be expected to be? A free... See more Supermarkets are sometimes open 24/7 nowadays, and that's certainly the trend: longer opening hours, more availability, more flexibility. But a supermarket is staffed by tens, or even hundreds, of employees, all working a normal working week, albeit at abnormal times of day, with overtime on offer if wished. At least, that's what I imagine, but I don't know anyone who works in a supermarket. Are they supposed to be available 24/7?
Just how available can we be expected to be? A freelancer is just one human being. Right from the Industrial Revolution, workers have had a right to a little free-time, and I know that in France, employees nowadays are limited to 35hpw. So why do we get jobs with requirements like this posted:
- availabilty between 8am - 8pm (7 days a week)
Would anyone here say "Yes, OK" to that?
Would you quote for that job, if everything else about it was positive?
Does the outsourcer really expect you to be available for work 84hpw, every week? Of course, that's 8am - 8pm in his/her part of the world, so it could be all night in yours.
Do you think the poster actually means it? Maybe they haven't thought about what they are demanding. Maybe they are happy to put themselves at the end of a Smartphone, 7 days a week, to accept work and pass it on to others. But that's 10 minutes' work, whereas I imagine they are expecting the freelancer to down tools (be they fishing tools, DIY tools, hiking tools, or even translation tools being used for other clients' jobs) to do several hours' work.
I'm not personally hung up about Saturday or Sunday being a leisure day. I like to have my leisure time when I choose, not just because of the name of the day (another reason why I like freelancing so much), but I do need to have leisure time. I cannot always be on the end of a lead, waiting for my "master" to tug on it and call me to attention. There's nothing free about that sort of a life.
What do you think? Am I just being a grumpy old woman, out of sync with the realities of professional life in 2012?
Sheila ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vadim Kadyrov
Ukraine
Local time: 00:52
Member (2011)
English to Russian
+ ...
| This is simply a matter | Aug 20, 2012 |
of choice, or, more precisely, of your position on the market. I do not believe that any more or less established translator will ever send his/her CV to such an ad. Still, people who do that are usually desperate to get any job - these can be newbies, students, etc. Moreover, I also once started as an underpaid and overworked freelancer. We all have to start from somewhere.
| | | | Allison Wright (X)
Portugal
Local time: 22:52
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Does the outsourcer really expect you to be available for work 84hpw, every week? Of course, that's 8am - 8pm in his/her part of the world, so it could be all night in yours.
...
What do you think? Am I just being a grumpy old woman, out of sync with the realities of professional life in 2012?
Sheila
This is an unrealistic expectation to have of anyone - even workaholic translators! As you point out, it is not something expected of a full-time employee who presumably gets pension and medical benefits, and weekends.
This kind of demand indicates to me that the job poster is somewhat disorganised. I think it is a fairly safe bet to assume that a retainer is not being offered in return for making oneself a slave to someone else's timetable, or lack thereof.
Anyone who consistently puts in 84 honest hours of work per week will soon become grumpy - and old.
Not an arrangement I would enter into.
| | | | Cristiana Coblis
Romania
Local time: 00:52
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
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| The 24/7 conundrum | Aug 20, 2012 |
Indeed, excessive availability requirements tend to become more and more of a problem. In Romania, where I live and work, the work week is 40 hours, but one would have to take 24 hours off after working 12 hours (Labour Code). Statistically, freelancers tend to work longer hours. I regularly work more than 40 hours/week, but I would not offer 12 hours a day 24/7 to one client. There is also the problem of having our clients spread out throughout the globe and the time zone differences. I normall... See more Indeed, excessive availability requirements tend to become more and more of a problem. In Romania, where I live and work, the work week is 40 hours, but one would have to take 24 hours off after working 12 hours (Labour Code). Statistically, freelancers tend to work longer hours. I regularly work more than 40 hours/week, but I would not offer 12 hours a day 24/7 to one client. There is also the problem of having our clients spread out throughout the globe and the time zone differences. I normally choose to adapt to the working hours of my regular clients and arrange most other projects according to that. You cannot make everyone happy all the time. ▲ Collapse
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 22:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Another quote from the same job | Aug 20, 2012 |
Vadim Kadyrov wrote:
I do not believe that any more or less established translator will ever send his/her CV to such an ad. Still, people who do that are usually desperate to get any job - these can be newbies, students, etc. Moreover, I also once started as an underpaid and overworked freelancer. We all have to start from somewhere.
Sure, things can be tough when you start out, although students certainly couldn't give this sort of availability. I certainly advise newbies to try to be available at weekends, during July-August, over the Christmas and New Year period and other public holidays. But all day, every day?
This particular job is actually not targeting newbies anyway, as it also says:
- at least 5 years experience
If I'd been having that sort of experience for 5 years, I don't think I'd be a freelance translator by now.
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Of course no freelancer (unless desperate) would commit themselves to being available for work every weekend (or every anytime).
However, if all other aspects of the offer looked good, I suppose you could negotiate? You could point out that you have other clients, but agree to be available (with reasonable notice) during normal working hours every weekday, for example, but not at weekends.
I also agree that one of the "joys" of freelancing is being able to take your leisure time when... See more Of course no freelancer (unless desperate) would commit themselves to being available for work every weekend (or every anytime).
However, if all other aspects of the offer looked good, I suppose you could negotiate? You could point out that you have other clients, but agree to be available (with reasonable notice) during normal working hours every weekday, for example, but not at weekends.
I also agree that one of the "joys" of freelancing is being able to take your leisure time when it suits you, and not necessarily at weekends.
Workahlic Jen ▲ Collapse
| | | | | availability | Aug 20, 2012 |
Hi Sheila,
As one who only works with direct clients, I must admit that availability is a key selling point.
If a client relies on you, it is not good psychology to take time off, down tools and leave him or her in the lurch. And with modern technology you can pick up your messages virtually anywhere.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you should be at your client's beck and call. Just that you should try to see things from his/her perspective. If someone needs ... See more Hi Sheila,
As one who only works with direct clients, I must admit that availability is a key selling point.
If a client relies on you, it is not good psychology to take time off, down tools and leave him or her in the lurch. And with modern technology you can pick up your messages virtually anywhere.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you should be at your client's beck and call. Just that you should try to see things from his/her perspective. If someone needs a job done urgently and you are their lifeline, you owe it to them to be contactable. They may be working on bids or other projects that require fast turnrounds.
But what does this mean in practice? It means that you give them advance notice when you plan to be away for lengthy periods. It means that you have colleagues in the wings to whom you can farm out work. It means checking your emails and listening to your voice messages at least once a day. And it may mean taking time out on your day 'off' to call back and agree deadlines or point your client in the direction of your backstop(s). Surely, in this day and age, this is no big deal? Or maybe I have an overinflated sense of duty. That said, my clients pay me top dollar because they know I won't let them down and will help them find a solution whenever I cannot do it myself for whatever reason.
BTW, your comment about the 35-hour week in France is a little misleading. In truth, unless you have a rather menial occupation, the 35-week simply means working whatever hours your job/boss demands but not being paid overtime... It is a bit more complex than that but ... been there, done that and know what I'm talking about. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Something for something | Aug 20, 2012 |
If an outsourcer expects me to be available between certain hours, I would require some compensation for that availability. Of course, they would never accept to compensate me for my availability but only for the actual jobs, so clearly we cannot collaborate under such terms.
I set my own working hours, and I don't reply to inquiries received after the "normal" working hours even if I happen to read them (with a few exceptions, of course).
I don't think the world is goi... See more If an outsourcer expects me to be available between certain hours, I would require some compensation for that availability. Of course, they would never accept to compensate me for my availability but only for the actual jobs, so clearly we cannot collaborate under such terms.
I set my own working hours, and I don't reply to inquiries received after the "normal" working hours even if I happen to read them (with a few exceptions, of course).
I don't think the world is going to fall apart if we are not available day and night. All of my favorite agencies have good deadlines and payment practices, so I tend to think that abnormal expectations are raised only by agencies that cannot offer more to their clients but availability for rush projects day and night... ▲ Collapse
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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 23:52
English to Polish
+ ...
Do you realize you just went on a rant about a job ad that you saw and didn't like?
By the way, the availability requirement is a "no-no" because of other projects as well (perhaps more than the lack of plannable free time).
| | | | | How available? | Aug 20, 2012 |
How often, if ever, does a client say there's no hurry compared to the opposite?
If the prospective customer tells me that there is no hurry I will most likely have a heart attack, despite my Pacemaker.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 22:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Direct clients certainly need more availability | Aug 20, 2012 |
polyglot45 wrote:
As one who only works with direct clients, I must admit that availability is a key selling point.
Certainly, if they only have one translator working for them, then they'll need at least an answer within a reasonable time. But they don't "require" you to be available, do they? I'm fortunate with my direct clients (at the moment, anyway) as they all seem to work Monday to Friday.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you should be at your client's beck and call.
But it is what many agencies seem to be demanding nowadays. Agencies should have many translators to choose from. They shouldn't be relying on one single person always being there.
But what does this mean in practice? It means that you give them advance notice when you plan to be away for lengthy periods. It means that you have colleagues in the wings to whom you can farm out work. It means checking your emails and listening to your voice messages at least once a day. And it may mean taking time out on your day 'off' to call back and agree deadlines or point your client in the direction of your backstop(s).
Do you think that's all they're expecting when they put this sort of requirement in a job posting? I do all of that and I do agree it's reasonable, if slightly annoying at times (particularly for the people you're with), but it seems to me that this agency (and there are others like it) is expecting actual work to be done at the drop of a hat, not just communication.
BTW, your comment about the 35-hour week in France is a little misleading. In truth, unless you have a rather menial occupation, the 35-week simply means working whatever hours your job/boss demands but not being paid overtime...
I was never an employee in France so I'm sure you have more insight into it, but it seemed to me that it was supposed to guarantee that the jobs were shared out more evenly i.e. 10 people would each work 35 hrs, rather than 9 people doing longer hours. It was certainly an absolute limit for some people, as I know some who were refused the possibility of a second part-time job because it would have put them over the 35 hours. Like most "fix-it" legislation, I don't think it has really achieved any of its objectives and has been abused in just about every way imaginable.
Abuse - it gets everywhere and taints everything.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 22:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Start the week with a rant! | Aug 20, 2012 |
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
Do you realize you just went on a rant about a job ad that you saw and didn't like?
I'm not proud, Krzysztof, I'll rant at anything!
Actually, it's quite a good way to start the week. It's very energising to have a good rant. Wakes you up and blows away all those cobwebs that the lazy days and lively nights of the weekend have left.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 23:52
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Availability does not mean capacity | Aug 20, 2012 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
So why do we get jobs with requirements like this posted:
- availabilty between 8am - 8pm (7 days a week)
Would anyone here say "Yes, OK" to that?
Well, you can read the client's requirements any way you like, and then tell him how available you are. I think that the requirement noted above is just a best-case scenario -- if you can come close to it, the client may still be happy.
You seem to interpret "availability" as "capacity". To me, availability means that you can be reached fairly quickly (say, within 10 minutes of a call or e-mail) during those times, for queries. In other words, if you have a smart phone for your freelance work and you switch it on between 8:00 and 20:00, so that you can respond to any query very soon after the query comes in, then you satisfy the above requirements.
Of course, if you manage your out-of-office replies smartly, you can get away with having chunks of unavailable time in the middle of that window. The important thing is that the client does not want to be left in the dark, or have to wait several hours for an answer without knowing roughly by when you are going to be answering.
I don't mind working on weekends, but I don't want clients to bank on it, because I may not be able to work on any given weekend due to other commitments.
If a client wants 24/7 availability, then I'll quote on his job but I'll make it clear when I'm really available, because I don't regard 24/7 availability as a literal requirement -- it's actually more of a hyperbole, or like saying ASAP or "we want it yesterday".
Sheila Wilson wrote:
polyglot45 wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you should be at your client's beck and call.
But it is what many agencies seem to be demanding nowadays. Agencies should have many translators to choose from. They shouldn't be relying on one single person always being there.
That's true. I also have several clients for whom I appear to be their only translator. You realise this when you haven't been around for several hours and then discover that the job that the client sent you was later posted to several jobs portals (to which you subscribe, of course).
[Edited at 2012-08-20 10:41 GMT]
| | | | | availability can secure clients | Aug 20, 2012 |
Sheila,
For clients, direct in particular, availability - if only in the form of a rapid response - is vital. You can then do your job, while they get on with theirs. I've been a client myself and there is nothing worse than someone who lets you down or doesn't have the decency to give you an answer one way or the other. I can assure that if you are working to a deadline yourself, you will only work once with translators who are the weak link in the chain. Big bucks can be involved. I'm p... See more Sheila,
For clients, direct in particular, availability - if only in the form of a rapid response - is vital. You can then do your job, while they get on with theirs. I've been a client myself and there is nothing worse than someone who lets you down or doesn't have the decency to give you an answer one way or the other. I can assure that if you are working to a deadline yourself, you will only work once with translators who are the weak link in the chain. Big bucks can be involved. I'm prepared to play the availability game as long as the client is prepared to pay for the privilege.
I did not comment on the ad you mentioned because I have no truck with agencies and this one seemed beneath contempt.
As to the principle of the 35-hour week in France, you may have a handle on the theory but, in practice, it certainly backfired. Introduced by the same idealistic lefties as now once more in power, watch out for more dumb moves that will inadvertently undermine the workforce.... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 22:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Availability versus capacity | Aug 20, 2012 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
You seem to interpret "availability" as "capacity". To me, availability means that you can be reached fairly quickly (say, within 10 minutes of a call or e-mail) during those times, for queries. In other words, if you have a smart phone for your freelance work and you switch it on between 8:00 and 20:00, so that you can respond to any query very soon after the query comes in, then you satisfy the above requirements.
I suppose it could just be that, Samuel. But although I do try to answer most emails within a reasonable time, I really don't want or expect that kind of 24/7 service level to be written into a contract, or a job posting. I don't want to be put in a position of having to guarantee it.
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