Apr 10, 2004 07:46
20 yrs ago
English term
queen
English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
The Pakistanis would have been in the Pakistani army, you see, whatever that was. As for the poor Brits, they had enough on their hands with us old queens...
The speaker is an old man who served the British Army during WWII.
The speaker is an old man who served the British Army during WWII.
Responses
Responses
+6
43 mins
chica nueva
Native in English
&
English
Specializes in field
http://youtube/iraVWQu3Zf8
Native in: English (Variants: British, New Zealand)
Works in: Chinese to English
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Selected
a homosexual man, especially an older man...
Is this what it is???
queen (homosexual) (slang offensive) = a homosexual man, especially an older man, whose manner is noticeable and artificial.eg James is such an old queen.
queen (slang) = a male homosexual, esp. one with feminine characteristics
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Note added at 19 hrs 32 mins (2004-04-11 03:18:54 GMT)
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I like Charlie\'s \'backgrounder\'(I was vaguely aware of this):
\"The army did consider homosexuality in serving troops to be a potential problem at the time (see e.g. p.89 of the same book).\"
queen (homosexual) (slang offensive) = a homosexual man, especially an older man, whose manner is noticeable and artificial.eg James is such an old queen.
queen (slang) = a male homosexual, esp. one with feminine characteristics
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Note added at 19 hrs 32 mins (2004-04-11 03:18:54 GMT)
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I like Charlie\'s \'backgrounder\'(I was vaguely aware of this):
\"The army did consider homosexuality in serving troops to be a potential problem at the time (see e.g. p.89 of the same book).\"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Patrick McKeown
: probably closer to what the speaker has in mind; a reference to how other serving men perceived his particular unit, perhaps?
26 mins
|
| agree |
Begoña Yañez
: This is the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the term!
54 mins
|
| agree |
Vicky Papaprodromou
57 mins
|
| neutral |
Peter Linton (X)
: These days this is indeed the first interpretation that springs to mind. But in the context and the period (WWII) (see my 'agree' above) I think these soldiers were Indian volunteers in the British Army, and therefore had to be "pampered"
1 hr
|
| neutral |
DGK T-I
: if the speaker is UK Brit.&if there is context to show he is speaking from a homosexual standpoint LATER: I like Dusty's comment about a self deprecating remark
2 hrs
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| agree |
Jan Liebelt
: That would be my take.
4 hrs
|
| neutral |
Hacene
: agrre with Giuli and there is nothing in this context to suggest this.
4 hrs
|
| agree |
Tony M
: Yes, I've known lots of older ex-service men (NO comments, thanks, Alex!) who sometimes refer to themselves self-deprecatingly like this, even though not NECESSARILY implying that the speaker himself, or the others, are in fact homo.
5 hrs
|
| agree |
Charlie Bavington
: The most likely, but see also below....
18 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "All the answers and comments provided here have helped me understand the word and the the text better. Thank you all. BTW, Charlie, in my book, the First Vintage International Edition, June 2001, "queens" is not capitalized. "
16 mins
Stefanie Sendelbach
Germany
Germany
Germany
IT and marketing translations
Native in: German 
Works in: English to German, German, Portuguese to German
my interpretation
Hi Zhoudan,
This is how I see this term: "Queens" here does not literally refer to queens of course. I think it is meant in the sense that they are pampered, they have a lot of requirements, are hard to satisfy. The British government has to treat them like queens so that they work well.
Let's see what the others say. I am not too sure here, just guessing.
This is how I see this term: "Queens" here does not literally refer to queens of course. I think it is meant in the sense that they are pampered, they have a lot of requirements, are hard to satisfy. The British government has to treat them like queens so that they work well.
Let's see what the others say. I am not too sure here, just guessing.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Gayle Wallimann
: Strange to non-British ears as it may be, it does refer to queens, the one who was on the throne at the time.
3 mins
|
| agree |
Peter Linton (X)
: From the limited context, it sounds as if the old man is an Indian who served in the British Army in WWII. As it is unlikely that all Indian soldiers were homosexuals, this "pampered" interpretation sounds more plausible to me.
1 hr
|
| neutral |
DGK T-I
: all the old Indian Army were volunteers,or some say professional soldiers serving because it was their profession,and they served honourably but I don't think it could be said that they were pampered.Sundari's suggest.could make sense if speaker isUK Brit
2 hrs
|
-4
18 mins
Gayle Wallimann
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
American in Provence
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, English to French, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
older generation, pre-Queen Elizabeth II
"Old queens" refers to those subjects who were alive when the Queen mother, Elizabeth I, was reigning. She just recently passed away. It's the oldest living generation in Britain, pre-WWII and up until the time that the present queen was crowned.
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Note added at 20 mins (2004-04-10 08:07:22 GMT)
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Today\'s generation would be the \"new queens\".
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Note added at 20 mins (2004-04-10 08:07:22 GMT)
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Today\'s generation would be the \"new queens\".
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jörgen Slet
7 mins
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Thanks.
|
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| agree |
Alfa Trans (X)
20 mins
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| disagree |
Krisztina Lelik
: Elizabeth I reigned in the 16th century (1558-1603). Elizabeth the Queen Mother was not a ruler, just the wife (later widow) of King George VI who was king of Britain during World War II
31 mins
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Correct, Elizabeth I was Henry the VIII's daughter. Also, the Queen Mother did not reign. I meant to say that it was from the Queen Mother's time, when her husband reigned.
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| disagree |
David Sirett
: Queen Elizabeth I, 1533-1603. The late Queen Mother was formerly the wife of George VI. In WWII she was not old and QEII wasn't born, so no "old queen"/"new queen" distinction then. Even your reference doesn't support your 'generation' argument.
42 mins
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|
Yep, that's what I said to Krisztina.
|
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| disagree |
Jan Liebelt
: For all the reasons stated above. The Queen Mum wasn't *that* old!
4 hrs
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No, I know that, but this old man is from another generation as the ones he is speaking to. I am old too, as I could call myself an old hippy...
|
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| disagree |
Hacene
: under World War II, England was ruled by George VI, E1 is the last of the Tudors
4 hrs
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Yes, see my note to Krisztina.
|
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| disagree |
Tony M
: Sorry, Gayle, but as a Brit, I just don't believe this interpretation is at all plausible... LATER: Well, I've certainly never come across the term used like this, or in any even remotely similar context
7 hrs
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|
Maybe I am wrong, but my link seemed to confirm what I said.
|
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| neutral |
DGK T-I
: never mind Gayle - I was wrong too, so I'm in good company :-) LATER: Oh! According to Charlie's "new evidence" I was right (the developments in this question are more unpredictable than a detective story.We're all bound to be confused:-)
11 hrs
|
| disagree |
Charlie Bavington
: with Dusty on this, as a Brit, and bearing in mind it's a British novel, with British characters.....
18 hrs
|
+1
2 hrs
possibly something continues later which gives 'old queens' a different meaning
eg: many regiments have names such as 'The Queens Regiment' (there are and were others), and soldiers were loyal to the regiment they served in (it's not unusual to talk about the old X regiment because it has been abolished, or because a soldier served in it a long time ago - all these British regiments have their names and history. Also some Indian or Pakistani regiments may possibly have also carried the name of the Queen).
But all this depends on whether something suitable follows, in the text....maybe it does (or maybe it doesn't!)
eg: http://www.army.mod.uk/ta/organisation/specialist_units/rlc_...
"However I add with some pride that I started off in the old Queens Regiment TA and became a senior NCO in the Infantry before recycling myself in the Royal Logistic Corps"
there are some other terms like queen's officers that might just possibly be involved, if a distinction is being made between soldiers in the British Army, and soldiers in the (pre-1948)British-Indian Army, or the post1948 Pakistan Army(where the old Indian Army was being reorganized, and it had to be decided who was going to belong to the army of which state). The apostrophe isn't always used in titles like this (in use).
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Note added at 6 hrs 15 mins (2004-04-10 14:02:11 GMT)
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After new info. added:
I was hoping for a continuation pointing to the above, but Mr.JPH trails off after queen...so there is no evidence pointing to it.
The most that can be said is that the primary meaning is Lai\'ans or Sundari\'s and that the author (Mr.JPH) was leaving the children guessing whether he meant Queen\'s(monarch\'s) or queens (Lai\'an or Sundari) since both sound the same to the children\'s hearing. Capitalizing queen would make it definitely the monarch, and so if the purpose was to leave the children (the reader) not knowing which was meant (because he says no more) it would be better not to capitalize. But it is perfectly possble (perhaps: more likely!) that no double meaning was intended by the author and it was just Lai\'ans or Sundaris.
I\'m coming round to thinking it really is Lai\'an\'s suggestion - the characters in the book are made to say some surprizing things.
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Note added at 6 hrs 15 mins (2004-04-10 14:02:48 GMT)
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typo. \'Lai\'an\'s Sundari\'s :-)
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Note added at 6 hrs 24 mins (2004-04-10 14:11:04 GMT)
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I especially like Dusty\'s remark:
Dusty: \"Yes, I\'ve known lots of older ex-service men (NO comments, thanks, Alex!) who sometimes refer to themselves self-deprecatingly like this, even though not NECESSARILY implying that the speaker himself, or the others, are in fact homo.\"
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Note added at 10 hrs 7 mins (2004-04-10 17:54:18 GMT)
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and am entirely convinced by his comments:
\"that Sundari also has a point, inasmuch as the speaker might be talking about \'old queens\' (with the meaning \'homos\'), whilst in fact merely wishing to imply, not that the entire officer corps of the British Indian Army were \'that way inclined\', but merely that they were a lot of demanding fusspots --- people often say \"Oh, don\'t be such an old queen!\" when they mean \"don\'t make such a fuss (as if you were a homo)\".
as well.
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Note added at 10 hrs 10 mins (2004-04-10 17:57:35 GMT)
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Which means...it\'s either and / or both...
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Note added at 12 hrs 1 min (2004-04-10 19:48:01 GMT)
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references for other answers:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/queenmother/article/0,2763,677156,...
\"The story that, when kept waiting for her evening cocktail, she once phoned down to her Clarence House footmen - \"I don\'t know what you two old queens are doing down there, but this old queen is dying of thirst\" - is in character. She was partial to the company of homosexuals, such as the playwright Noël Coward, and liked having them on her staff. In return, she was treated as something of a gay icon.\"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/story/0,2763,908408,00.ht...
\"Sir Hardy Amies, the \"suburban boy\" who rose to be the Queen\'s couturier, died yesterday afternoon at the age of 93....
In his busy, strong-minded old age, he was relaxed about acknowledging his homosexuality and his snobbery. He said, \"I can\'t help it. I\'m immensely impressed by all genuine upper-class manifestations.....
Joined Intelligence Corps in 1939, becoming lieutenant-colonel and head of special forces missions to Belgium in 1944...
But he had long ago seen off all his rivals. Of one of these, the late Sir Norman Hartnell, he said: \"It\'s quite simple. He was a silly old queen and I\'m a clever old queen.\"
But all this depends on whether something suitable follows, in the text....maybe it does (or maybe it doesn't!)
eg: http://www.army.mod.uk/ta/organisation/specialist_units/rlc_...
"However I add with some pride that I started off in the old Queens Regiment TA and became a senior NCO in the Infantry before recycling myself in the Royal Logistic Corps"
there are some other terms like queen's officers that might just possibly be involved, if a distinction is being made between soldiers in the British Army, and soldiers in the (pre-1948)British-Indian Army, or the post1948 Pakistan Army(where the old Indian Army was being reorganized, and it had to be decided who was going to belong to the army of which state). The apostrophe isn't always used in titles like this (in use).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs 15 mins (2004-04-10 14:02:11 GMT)
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After new info. added:
I was hoping for a continuation pointing to the above, but Mr.JPH trails off after queen...so there is no evidence pointing to it.
The most that can be said is that the primary meaning is Lai\'ans or Sundari\'s and that the author (Mr.JPH) was leaving the children guessing whether he meant Queen\'s(monarch\'s) or queens (Lai\'an or Sundari) since both sound the same to the children\'s hearing. Capitalizing queen would make it definitely the monarch, and so if the purpose was to leave the children (the reader) not knowing which was meant (because he says no more) it would be better not to capitalize. But it is perfectly possble (perhaps: more likely!) that no double meaning was intended by the author and it was just Lai\'ans or Sundaris.
I\'m coming round to thinking it really is Lai\'an\'s suggestion - the characters in the book are made to say some surprizing things.
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Note added at 6 hrs 15 mins (2004-04-10 14:02:48 GMT)
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typo. \'Lai\'an\'s Sundari\'s :-)
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Note added at 6 hrs 24 mins (2004-04-10 14:11:04 GMT)
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I especially like Dusty\'s remark:
Dusty: \"Yes, I\'ve known lots of older ex-service men (NO comments, thanks, Alex!) who sometimes refer to themselves self-deprecatingly like this, even though not NECESSARILY implying that the speaker himself, or the others, are in fact homo.\"
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Note added at 10 hrs 7 mins (2004-04-10 17:54:18 GMT)
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and am entirely convinced by his comments:
\"that Sundari also has a point, inasmuch as the speaker might be talking about \'old queens\' (with the meaning \'homos\'), whilst in fact merely wishing to imply, not that the entire officer corps of the British Indian Army were \'that way inclined\', but merely that they were a lot of demanding fusspots --- people often say \"Oh, don\'t be such an old queen!\" when they mean \"don\'t make such a fuss (as if you were a homo)\".
as well.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs 10 mins (2004-04-10 17:57:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Which means...it\'s either and / or both...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs 1 min (2004-04-10 19:48:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
references for other answers:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/queenmother/article/0,2763,677156,...
\"The story that, when kept waiting for her evening cocktail, she once phoned down to her Clarence House footmen - \"I don\'t know what you two old queens are doing down there, but this old queen is dying of thirst\" - is in character. She was partial to the company of homosexuals, such as the playwright Noël Coward, and liked having them on her staff. In return, she was treated as something of a gay icon.\"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/story/0,2763,908408,00.ht...
\"Sir Hardy Amies, the \"suburban boy\" who rose to be the Queen\'s couturier, died yesterday afternoon at the age of 93....
In his busy, strong-minded old age, he was relaxed about acknowledging his homosexuality and his snobbery. He said, \"I can\'t help it. I\'m immensely impressed by all genuine upper-class manifestations.....
Joined Intelligence Corps in 1939, becoming lieutenant-colonel and head of special forces missions to Belgium in 1944...
But he had long ago seen off all his rivals. Of one of these, the late Sir Norman Hartnell, he said: \"It\'s quite simple. He was a silly old queen and I\'m a clever old queen.\"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jan Liebelt
: "Queens" would probably have been capitalised if it was a reference to the regiment
2 hrs
|
|
the thought behind my suggestion was "it should have had a capital, but perhaps it just wasn't given one".Charlie tells us it has a capital in the book. So I go back to my "it means both(all three:-)position (monarch,Lai'an & fusspot)
|
|
| agree |
Tony M
: Nice one, Doc! You're obviously better at research than I :-) Try to imagine the Queen Mum scene played and voiced by the 'Spitting Image' team... *** GREAT! Gromit (sic) is my boyfriend's pet name for me! 'Cos he's the irritating old git in a pullover..
11 hrs
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|
"I was not a giant,I merely stood upon the shoulders of giants"or something like that :-) perhaps visiting Corgis could be played by Grommit the friend of Wallace?
|
2 hrs
possibly something continues later which gives 'old queens' a different meaning
eg: many regiments have names such as 'The Queens Regiment' (there are and were others), and soldiers were loyal to the regiment they served in (it's not unusual to talk about the old X regiment because it has been abolished, or because a soldier served in it a long time ago - all these British regiments have their names and history. Also some Indian or Pakistani regiments may possibly have also carried the name of the Queen).
But all this depends on whether something suitable follows, in the text....maybe it does (or maybe it doesn't!)
eg: http://www.army.mod.uk/ta/organisation/specialist_units/rlc_...
"However I add with some pride that I started off in the old Queens Regiment TA and became a senior NCO in the Infantry before recycling myself in the Royal Logistic Corps"
there are some other terms like queen's officers that might just possibly be involved, if a distinction is being made between soldiers in the British Army, and soldiers in the (pre-1948)British-Indian Army, or the post1948 Pakistan Army(where the old Indian Army was being reorganized, and it had to be decided who was going to belong to the army of which state). The apostrophe isn't always used in titles like this (in use).
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Note added at 2 hrs 33 mins (2004-04-10 10:20:30 GMT)
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I have a dim memory that in British India the regiments of the the British Army stationed in India were all described as \"Queens Regiments\" (not just the individual name of one regiment, but also the general name for all such regiments and soldiers, as distinct from the Indian Army). This dated from the days of the East India Company when there was a distinction between British Army regiments in India(Queen\'s Regiments) and E.India Company(John Company) Regiments, but the classificatiion for British Army (Queen\'s regiments) continued, perhaps until independence, probably because it was convenient to distinguish between UK and Indian Army units, in the minds of the administrators all theoretically British.
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Note added at 3 hrs 3 mins (2004-04-10 10:49:57 GMT)
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One further doubt is in my mind - is this a UK British old soldier talking about the time he served in the Second World War: in a British unit alongside old Indian Army units, or in an old Indian Army unit alongside \"Indian\" comrades, OR: is this a Pakistani/Indian old soldier who served in the old Indian Army, alongside britis comrades.
Both of these were normal, during the war and after.
If he was an old Pakistani/Indian soldier in the british Indian Army then I also have a dim memory of \'queen\'s pensioners\' as being to do with being a former soldier in that army.
More context (related to the problem:-) would help us, if it is available.
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Note added at 3 hrs 12 mins (2004-04-10 10:59:48 GMT)
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(There was a radio programme about such pensioner\'s rights or situation, and I think this expression was used)
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Note added at 6 hrs 18 mins (2004-04-10 14:04:57 GMT)
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The new context from the asker shows that it has nothing to do with regiments in India - oh, well good idea while it lasted :-)
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Note added at 6 hrs 24 mins (2004-04-10 14:11:29 GMT)
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~
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Note added at 10 hrs 8 mins (2004-04-10 17:54:51 GMT)
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~
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Note added at 10 hrs 11 mins (2004-04-10 17:58:33 GMT)
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all this stuff is based on the text before the note - it doesn\'t really help now, I\'m afraid....
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Note added at 12 hrs 1 min (2004-04-10 19:48:24 GMT)
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~
But all this depends on whether something suitable follows, in the text....maybe it does (or maybe it doesn't!)
eg: http://www.army.mod.uk/ta/organisation/specialist_units/rlc_...
"However I add with some pride that I started off in the old Queens Regiment TA and became a senior NCO in the Infantry before recycling myself in the Royal Logistic Corps"
there are some other terms like queen's officers that might just possibly be involved, if a distinction is being made between soldiers in the British Army, and soldiers in the (pre-1948)British-Indian Army, or the post1948 Pakistan Army(where the old Indian Army was being reorganized, and it had to be decided who was going to belong to the army of which state). The apostrophe isn't always used in titles like this (in use).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 33 mins (2004-04-10 10:20:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I have a dim memory that in British India the regiments of the the British Army stationed in India were all described as \"Queens Regiments\" (not just the individual name of one regiment, but also the general name for all such regiments and soldiers, as distinct from the Indian Army). This dated from the days of the East India Company when there was a distinction between British Army regiments in India(Queen\'s Regiments) and E.India Company(John Company) Regiments, but the classificatiion for British Army (Queen\'s regiments) continued, perhaps until independence, probably because it was convenient to distinguish between UK and Indian Army units, in the minds of the administrators all theoretically British.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 3 mins (2004-04-10 10:49:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
One further doubt is in my mind - is this a UK British old soldier talking about the time he served in the Second World War: in a British unit alongside old Indian Army units, or in an old Indian Army unit alongside \"Indian\" comrades, OR: is this a Pakistani/Indian old soldier who served in the old Indian Army, alongside britis comrades.
Both of these were normal, during the war and after.
If he was an old Pakistani/Indian soldier in the british Indian Army then I also have a dim memory of \'queen\'s pensioners\' as being to do with being a former soldier in that army.
More context (related to the problem:-) would help us, if it is available.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 12 mins (2004-04-10 10:59:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(There was a radio programme about such pensioner\'s rights or situation, and I think this expression was used)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs 18 mins (2004-04-10 14:04:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The new context from the asker shows that it has nothing to do with regiments in India - oh, well good idea while it lasted :-)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs 24 mins (2004-04-10 14:11:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
~
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs 8 mins (2004-04-10 17:54:51 GMT)
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~
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Note added at 10 hrs 11 mins (2004-04-10 17:58:33 GMT)
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all this stuff is based on the text before the note - it doesn\'t really help now, I\'m afraid....
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs 1 min (2004-04-10 19:48:24 GMT)
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~
+3
18 hrs
Charlie Bavington
Native in English
&
English
Hassle-free translations for busy people
Native in: English
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
just some info....
In the book, the word "Queens" is capitalised (p.172).
Generally, I'd expect 'queen' as slang for effeminate/homosexual man to be lower case.
Since it's talking about an ex-army man, the capitalisation leads one to think it is most likely about a regiment. However, the whole context leads us back to the effiminate/homosexual thing....
For info of others - The speaker was fighting in Africa (obviously you can only know that if you have the book!!)
The army did consider homosexuality in serving troops to be a potential problem at the time (see e.g. p.89 of the same book).
Equally, the army was not averse to lumping potential "problem" people together in one regiment to keep an eye on them.
Hence, my suggestion that it could be....both !
A regiment (The Queen's xxxxxx) that contained significant proportion of "suspected" (if that's the word) homosexuals.
Generally, I'd expect 'queen' as slang for effeminate/homosexual man to be lower case.
Since it's talking about an ex-army man, the capitalisation leads one to think it is most likely about a regiment. However, the whole context leads us back to the effiminate/homosexual thing....
For info of others - The speaker was fighting in Africa (obviously you can only know that if you have the book!!)
The army did consider homosexuality in serving troops to be a potential problem at the time (see e.g. p.89 of the same book).
Equally, the army was not averse to lumping potential "problem" people together in one regiment to keep an eye on them.
Hence, my suggestion that it could be....both !
A regiment (The Queen's xxxxxx) that contained significant proportion of "suspected" (if that's the word) homosexuals.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
DGK T-I
: Excellent new information! (we knew JPH was talking about service in Africa not India,after Zhoudan told us in the extra note I asked for that JPH had been serving in the Congo).
7 hrs
|
| agree |
Tony M
: Nice one, Charlie! Sounds to me like a deliberately ambiguous play on words on the part of the author; just the sort of veiled reference to homosexuality that men of that age group habitually used... at a time when it was still a criminal offence in UK
20 hrs
|
| agree |
David Knowles
: Looking back at the book, he was very carefully dressed, which could indicate homosexuality. I think this idea of a "problem regiment" is good.
1 day 14 hrs
|
+1
7 hrs
COMMENT (not for grading)
The more I think about it, the more certain I am that colleague Iai'an has got it right, and this IS referring to homosexuals.
For a start, the speaker specifically says 'OLD queens', which is a very common way of using the word in this context.
Also, he is in effect saying (in very politically-incorrect terms!) that the Army couldn't possibly have included "wogs" (= a potentially troublesome minority group), as it already had enough on its hands coping with "us old queens" (= ditto)
By way of anecdote, the late Queen Mum is said once to have telephoned down for her ex-Navy butler when her afternoon tea was a long time coming and said "Tell that old queen down there that this old Queen up here is waiting for her tea!"
I'd like to believe she had that much sense of humour! :-)
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Note added at 7 hrs 47 mins (2004-04-10 15:33:52 GMT)
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I stand by my original comment (and thank Dr. G. for his), but I can see that Sundari also has a point, inasmuch as the speaker might be talking about \'old queens\' (with the meaning \'homos\'), whilst in fact merely wishing to imply, not that the entire officer corps of the British Indian Army were \'that way inclined\', but merely that they were a lot of demanding fusspots --- people often say \"Oh, don\'t be such an old queen!\" when they mean \"don\'t make such a fuss (as if you were a homo)\".
But it is clear from Asker\'s added context that these were definitely Brits, and NOT Indian or other \"wogs\" (who might need \'funny\' food).
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Note added at 7 hrs 51 mins (2004-04-10 15:38:34 GMT)
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In response to Lars Peter Linton\'s peer comment, I\'d just like to add that the word \'old queen\' would certainly be \"the first thing that comes to mind\" for a lot of men of this generation; the term was in very common use in the early half of the 20th century, perhaps even more common than today... Oscar Wilde, Noël Coward, Quentin Crisp...
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Note added at 1 day 15 hrs 17 mins (2004-04-11 23:04:38 GMT)
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Just a note to Doc:
Did you see the film \'On Giant\'s Shoulders\' ? Very moving, and written by a friend of mine...
For a start, the speaker specifically says 'OLD queens', which is a very common way of using the word in this context.
Also, he is in effect saying (in very politically-incorrect terms!) that the Army couldn't possibly have included "wogs" (= a potentially troublesome minority group), as it already had enough on its hands coping with "us old queens" (= ditto)
By way of anecdote, the late Queen Mum is said once to have telephoned down for her ex-Navy butler when her afternoon tea was a long time coming and said "Tell that old queen down there that this old Queen up here is waiting for her tea!"
I'd like to believe she had that much sense of humour! :-)
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Note added at 7 hrs 47 mins (2004-04-10 15:33:52 GMT)
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I stand by my original comment (and thank Dr. G. for his), but I can see that Sundari also has a point, inasmuch as the speaker might be talking about \'old queens\' (with the meaning \'homos\'), whilst in fact merely wishing to imply, not that the entire officer corps of the British Indian Army were \'that way inclined\', but merely that they were a lot of demanding fusspots --- people often say \"Oh, don\'t be such an old queen!\" when they mean \"don\'t make such a fuss (as if you were a homo)\".
But it is clear from Asker\'s added context that these were definitely Brits, and NOT Indian or other \"wogs\" (who might need \'funny\' food).
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Note added at 7 hrs 51 mins (2004-04-10 15:38:34 GMT)
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In response to Lars Peter Linton\'s peer comment, I\'d just like to add that the word \'old queen\' would certainly be \"the first thing that comes to mind\" for a lot of men of this generation; the term was in very common use in the early half of the 20th century, perhaps even more common than today... Oscar Wilde, Noël Coward, Quentin Crisp...
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Note added at 1 day 15 hrs 17 mins (2004-04-11 23:04:38 GMT)
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Just a note to Doc:
Did you see the film \'On Giant\'s Shoulders\' ? Very moving, and written by a friend of mine...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
DGK T-I
: I know it's "not for kudos", but I do like "us old fusspots". I'd be fascinated to know how Zhoudan approaches translating the phrase. (My agree here is an agree with Sundari & Lai'an,too)
2 hrs
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Thanks, Doc! I like it too, I hope Zhoudan manages to find a suitable equivalent in target lang.
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Discussion
"I'm afraid you must be mistaken," said Mr. Hamilton, genteel as ever. "There were certainly no wogs as I remember - though you're probably not allowed to say that these days, are you? But no...no Pakistanis...What would we have fed them? No, no," he grumbled, assessing the question as if he were being given the opportunity to rewrite history here and now. "Quite out of the question. I could not possibly have stomached that rich food. No Pakistanis. The Pakistanis would have been in the Pakistani army, you see, whatever that was. As for the poor Brits, they had enough on their hands with us old queens..."
Mr. Hamilton laughed softly to himself, turned his head, and silently admired the roaming branches of a cherry tree that dominated one whole corner of this garden. After a long pause he turned back and tears were visible in his eyes again - fast, sharp tears as if he had been slapped in the face. "Now, you young men shouldn't tell fibs should you? Fibs will rot your teeth."