| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Tests required by outsourcers:I have a feeling Thread poster: Maya M Fourioti
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Maya Fourioti wrote:
I believe it is becoming a sort of common practice to get free translations.
Wrong. I have done many tests in my career and almost always received some feedback. The idea that agencies regularly use tests as free translations is a mere urban legend, and compares to the idea that Hitler escaped to the Antarctica.
What could be happening is that agencies asking for the tests do not still have the translation job. They test you simply just in case the job happens. If the job does not happen, they feel it is futile to report it back to you. That is why I always ask whether the test is for actual work or just to be considered for a potential future job. I rarely do tests for the latter, and report my willingness to do the test when the job is a reality.
Tests have their purpose and a place in the industry. It is your option not to do them, or to do them with a charge if you have a bad feeling about the outsourcer.
[Edited at 2012-07-15 06:19 GMT]
| | | | Maya M Fourioti 
Greece
Local time: 00:23
Member (2010)
English to Greek
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | How am I supposed to know? | Jul 15, 2012 |
Is it not their role to say " it is a potential job"?
I was referring to the case when they write to you and ask for collaboration.
Thank you for your valuable contribution.
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
What could be happening is that agencies asking for the tests do not still have the translation job. .......
Tests have their purpose and a place in the industry. It is your option not to do them, or to do them with a charge if you have a bad feeling about the outsourcer.
[Edited at 2012-07-15 06:19 GMT]
| | | | Maya M Fourioti
Greece
Local time: 00:23
Member (2010)
English to Greek
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Valuable time | Jul 15, 2012 |
Eletherios has a good point: Our time.
Have you ever calculated how long it takes to go through the procedure a potential outsourcer asks you to?
Collect your certificates, CVs,letters of reference, NDA, Translator's rules etc.When you have done all this, they ask you for a test as if they have totally ignored the information you provided such as LWA record on your Proz.com profile etc.
In most cases, they do not even get back to you to provide the feedback you need as a trans... See more Eletherios has a good point: Our time.
Have you ever calculated how long it takes to go through the procedure a potential outsourcer asks you to?
Collect your certificates, CVs,letters of reference, NDA, Translator's rules etc.When you have done all this, they ask you for a test as if they have totally ignored the information you provided such as LWA record on your Proz.com profile etc.
In most cases, they do not even get back to you to provide the feedback you need as a translator:Have you passed their test or have you failed it?
Having this in mind, I started the thread.
And I really appreciate the valuable time you spent in replying and providing interesting comments.
It goes without saying that there are excellent outsourcers on the market, with perfect communication and a fair apporach to translators whom I was fortunate to get to know.
Have a great day ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 23:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| I do them... | Jul 15, 2012 |
Maya Fourioti wrote:
When I have sent all the documents required, NDAs occasionally... the crucial question arises: "Could you possibly do a small test for us?".
Some of my clients mention the test only after I've signed the NDA. Others mention the NDA only after I've done the test. Both are annoying, since I think it should be clear from the start what the procurement procedure is. Perhaps one should be clear about it as a translator, in one's first or second e-mail with the client...?
I generally don't mind doing test translations, even for clients for whom I'm fairly certain I won't get any work, because I find them interesting, and they are good practice. Sometimes I even get feedback, which isn't always useful but certainly is interesting (to show what the superstitions of other translators are).
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Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 00:23
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
I generally don't mind doing test translations, even for clients for whom I'm fairly certain I won't get any work, because I find them interesting, and they are good practice.
Interesting? Good practice? Samuel, why not just to take any text you can find around and translate it? At least in this case you can choose...
[Edited at 2012-07-15 12:41 GMT]
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 17:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Against BB rules | Jul 15, 2012 |
Nikita Kobrin wrote:
Maya Fourioti wrote:
I do write that feedback is a must, but my request is disregarded.
If my request of this kind has been disregarded I may feel free to post a negative feedback for the outsourcer in question.
I've had a similar experience and I think this would be warranted. However, it is against BB rules (which stipulate you actually have to do contracted work for an outsourcer in order to post a rating and/or comment).
| | | | Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 00:23
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
Robert Forstag wrote:
I've had a similar experience and I think this would be warranted. However, it is against BB rules (which stipulate you actually have to do contracted work for an outsourcer in order to post a rating and/or comment).
1) Robert, I think performing of a test should be considered as 'work'. Certainly we should mention that this particular feedback is given on the basis of a completed test. Next time this outsourcer will think twice about organisation of his testing process before wasting our time...
2) Proz BB is not the only place on the Net where we can leave our feedbacks...
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 22:23
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Tests: should we make them unusable? | Jul 15, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
I think there is nothing wrong with short tests, like 100 words, no more, and they should be a part of the translation you are about to do.
I'm inclined to agree, but "part of the translation you are about to do" is the key thing here. When they are just collecting applications and haven't got anything to offer, why do a test? Another very important point is that I would NEVER do a test until they had explicitly agreed to my terms. There's no earthly point in doing a test if they'd never be willing to pay more than half my rate.
I very rarely do tests, but I've been thinking of the possibility of returning the next one as a PDF file, and with a watermark running diagonally across it. Does anyone do that to ensure (more or less) that the test can't be used? It's something I've done in the past with CVs. Normally I ask the owner for payment in advance, but occasionally I translate it and send it like that. When I've received payment, I send the Word version.
Sheila
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Rolf Kern
Switzerland
Local time: 23:23
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
.. to do short free tests, but not, if they have a fixed delay. This is supicious.
| | | | | Test translations | Jul 15, 2012 |
An agency I work for regularly asked me to do a 'client's test translation', because the client requested so.
A month or so later I received a job offer from an agency offering low rates to do a translation part of which was my 'test'; they also sent me the instructions from the agency I did the test for.
| | | | Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 00:23
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
| I sometimes use a similar technique | Jul 15, 2012 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I very rarely do tests, but I've been thinking of the possibility of returning the next one as a PDF file, and with a watermark running diagonally across it. Does anyone do that to ensure (more or less) that the test can't be used?
Sheila, I do tests so rarely and for so thoroughly chosen clients that I actually don't need it.
Nevertheless I sometimes use a similar technique (but not watermark) for translations I deliver so that they can't be used until I'm paid.
| | | | veratek
Brazil
Local time: 19:23
French to English
+ ...
| agree there should be some form of feedback mechanism | Jul 16, 2012 |
Nikita Kobrin wrote:
Robert Forstag wrote:
I've had a similar experience and I think this would be warranted. However, it is against BB rules (which stipulate you actually have to do contracted work for an outsourcer in order to post a rating and/or comment).
1) Robert, I think performing of a test should be considered as 'work'. Certainly we should mention that this particular feedback is given on the basis of a completed test. Next time this outsourcer will think twice about organisation of his testing process before wasting our time...
2) Proz BB is not the only place on the Net where we can leave our feedbacks...
So we need to set up a site for this feedback procedure.
The last time I tried to post about a test that made me suspicious about the requester, without mentioning their name, just the topic, ProZ censored my post.
I was thus never able to find out if the company had been sending out tests which were in fact the work they wanted translated.
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Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 16:23
Greek to English
+ ...
| Prepared samples | Jul 16, 2012 |
Gitte is right. Make a sample of your work yourself, and give it to them. That's what normal professionals do. If they ask for their own customized sample, charge them normally.
For example, a graphic artist or a photographer has a "portfolio".
Nobody says to a photographer "come and take some family pictures for free and if I like them I'll probably hire you in the future" (!!!).
But let me ask the entire "community" something: how come you guys are more w... See more Gitte is right. Make a sample of your work yourself, and give it to them. That's what normal professionals do. If they ask for their own customized sample, charge them normally.
For example, a graphic artist or a photographer has a "portfolio".
Nobody says to a photographer "come and take some family pictures for free and if I like them I'll probably hire you in the future" (!!!).
But let me ask the entire "community" something: how come you guys are more willing to do whatever someone is asking you if they ask you by email, although you would refuse the same request if it was in person? Does "email" have special Jedi powers?
Or maybe translation agencies have special powers?
What if I send to the community a mass e-mail asking them to volunteer just one hour of their time to baby-sit the neighbor's dog for free, do you think they would do it? ▲ Collapse
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Maya Fourioti wrote:
Is it not their role to say " it is a potential job"?
Ask them! If you want to know whether a test is for a real job which has been ordered already and has to be assigned, it is best that you simply ask the agency. They will surely tell you and no sensible PM or agency will hide the truth from you. If you explain that you are busy and prefer not to do the test unless a real job (or an interesting bidding process) is at stake, they will surely understand.
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 23:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
| They can whistle | Jul 16, 2012 |
Maya Fourioti wrote:
In the beginning I sent tests as required thinking it was part of the whole procedure. However, I have rarely heard from those agencies or got any feedback about the translation test. I believe it is becoming a sort of common practice to get free translations.
Therefore, I refuse to send tests because I believe it is a matter of politeness to reply to the translator, even if their test was not a pass.What do you think?
I think that sometimes they are genuine requests to check your work, and others they are requests from unscrupulous operators who are up to no good.
So, here's what I now put in my proz profile:
"POTENTIAL CLIENTS PLEASE NOTE:
I am not usually willing to provide "test translations" or "updated CVs". And please do NOT ask for my "BEST RATES" - if you are serious, just make me an offer. "
[Edited at 2012-07-16 08:44 GMT]
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