Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3] >
Bad behaviour or not
Thread poster: Mahmoud Rayyan
Oleg Osipov
Oleg Osipov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:30
English to Russian
+ ...
No... Dec 26, 2008

Mahmoud Rayyan wrote:

AM I MISTAKEN?



No, you are not.
Delete them from your contact list and forget.


 
Terry Richards
Terry Richards
France
Local time: 10:30
French to English
+ ...
Two things to do... Dec 26, 2008

1) Write to the intermediary and point out that you are senior managing director in chief of your company and, therefore, clearly superior to him. Add that you expect him to use your full title in all further communications with you until such time as you give him explicit written permission to do otherwise. You can make this letter as rude as you like.

2) Write to the original company explaining that you are not currently interested in working for them (unless you really want to work for them) because you are not prepared to be insulted by their intermediary. It is possible that they do not know how their representative is representing them. I would make this letter a little more polite that the other one just because they may not know what is going on. If they don't know, they should be grateful to you for telling them.

Terry.
Collapse


 
Harry Bornemann
Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 03:30
English to German
+ ...
A prank? Dec 26, 2008

XXXXXX wrote:

you r talking to a general manager and you must you the title. Lean how to deal with your superior.

Even if that guy would not have acted like a good Groucho Marx imitator, I would have kindly asked for a test payment before I would begin any test translation.



 
Kevin Lossner
Kevin Lossner  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 09:30
German to English
+ ...
It's like stepping in something unpleasant from a dog Dec 26, 2008

Mahmoud Rayyan wrote:
Pls find enclosed the exam for further delivery after 2 hours from receipt.


To which the proper response is something like "in your dreams!". I have never heard of a legitimate translation company requesting a test translation to be done within two hours. In some cases, there my be a time frame of days due to project planning considerations. I can even imagine an overnight scenario. But 2 hours? I smell a rat.


you r talking to a general manager and you must you the title. Lean how to deal with your superior.


This person is also obviously incompetent in English. Anyone who tries to cop an attitude with my while not even bothering to attempt acceptable English will only get laughed at. I don't laugh at mistakes by someone making an honest effort with my language, but someone who is so lazy that "are" becomes "r" or "you" becomes "u" will probably be lazy about many other important things in a business relationship.

Also, as others have pointed out, you are your own boss and can and should deal at the same level as the head of any company you deal with. He can save that sort of attitude for those who wear his slave collar and draw a paycheck from him each week - if he remembers to pay them.



I apologized to him....


Apologizing to stupid people like this can, in the right circumstances, be a fine way of ridiculing them, but this person is probably too thick-headed, and you were probably being polite in giving an apology that this person did not deserve.

I am always a bit taken aback when perfect strangers approach me informally asking me to do work. I don't mind informal approaches from colleagues at all - I would feel rather odd if a fellow translator sent me a private mail with a question and called me Mr. Lossner - but if I receive an unsolicited request for work from an agency and I am called "Kevin" right away and (if the request is in German, which has a formal and an informal mode for the second person") the informal "you" is used, I feel very put off. This distinction between formal and informal 2nd person no longer exists in modern English, so many English speakers might ignore it, but I consider it condescending and insulting from strangers. Only after a good relationship is established do I feel comfortable with informality in a business communication, and the communication with some of my best clients is still very formal in the use of language - I take that as a compliment in such cases.

This idiot treated you badly and owes you an apology, but he is probably too stupid to know that, so wipe him off your feet and walk on.


And how should I know that he is my superior!!!!!!!
Please inform me


OK... I hereby inform you that you are mistaken. I would judge him your inferior actually....


 
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:30
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Outranking Dec 26, 2008

There is an excellent example of such preposterous outranking in Mel Brooks' "The Producers". The complete script is available at http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/p/the-producers-script-screenplay.html .

At a certain moment, during the "Springtime for Hitler" premiere, the audience takes on roaring laughter. Franz Liebkind - t
... See more
There is an excellent example of such preposterous outranking in Mel Brooks' "The Producers". The complete script is available at http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/p/the-producers-script-screenplay.html .

At a certain moment, during the "Springtime for Hitler" premiere, the audience takes on roaring laughter. Franz Liebkind - the crazy former Nazi officer who wrote the play "seriously", to show the good side of the dictator - cannot accept that people consider that laughable, so he yells:
LIEBKIND: You shut up! I'm the author. You're just the audience. I outrank you.

This seems to be the kind of "superiority" involved here.
Collapse


 
Alexandra Goldburt
Alexandra Goldburt
Local time: 01:30
English to Russian
+ ...
How to deal with the superior? Dec 26, 2008

What's the ****? (insert the appropriate word in you language).

The major advantage of being a freelancer is not to deal with the superiors, not to know how and not to care!


 
Sonja Köppen
Sonja Köppen  Identity Verified
Germany
Member (2008)
English to German
+ ...
Anyway thank you for posting this story. Dec 26, 2008

It reflects how quickly one is inclined to believe having committed a social crime whenever someone pops in and declares such in a tone at will (no matter how silly the issue) -- instead of acting appropriately and even rise to the occasion and have a deep, good laugh from the belly (-> "Write to the intermediary and point out that you are senior managing director in chief of your company and, therefore, clearly superior to him. Add that you expect him to use your full t... See more
It reflects how quickly one is inclined to believe having committed a social crime whenever someone pops in and declares such in a tone at will (no matter how silly the issue) -- instead of acting appropriately and even rise to the occasion and have a deep, good laugh from the belly (-> "Write to the intermediary and point out that you are senior managing director in chief of your company and, therefore, clearly superior to him. Add that you expect him to use your full title in all further communications with you until such time as you give him explicit written permission to do otherwise").
Funny that we need companions to advert to the obvious in such cases. And a few statements of that kind later, we marvel how we could have considered the insults in question for even a second.
This mechanism is quite familiar to me. Thank you for the opportunity to become a bit more aware of it.
Collapse


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:30
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Learn how to deal with... Dec 26, 2008

Mahmoud Rayyan wrote:
you r talking to a general manager and you must you the title. Lean how to deal with your superior.
XXXXXX


This person should learn how to deal with a business email, simply adding a name and a surname and, if being a general manager is SOOOO important, the title "General Manager".

To me you acted correctly (I act the same way all the time and never got such a pompous reply). This person should learn to deal with independent professionals. Just kiss them good bye!


 
Nicole Schnell
Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:30
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
It takes much less to get me ticked off Dec 27, 2008

Kevin Lossner wrote:

I am always a bit taken aback when perfect strangers approach me informally asking me to do work.
...
This distinction between formal and informal 2nd person no longer exists in modern English, so many English speakers might ignore it, but I consider it condescending and insulting from strangers.



Examples (Note: I am not talking about mass emails, only the ones that were actually sent to me personally):

- My name is not "Hi!"

- My name is not "translator"

- My name, to complete strangers, is not "Nicole" but Ms. or Mrs. Schnell. I might be twice your age. Who are you anyway?

- The fact that I am living in the US does not entitle you as a foreigner / a foreign company to be on a first-name basis, even if this is quite common among business associates. Which is a different story. How about becoming an associate first?

If I feel like it, and if the message proved not to be spam, I send "appropriate" replies.


This has nothing to do with being arrogant, this is about business English 101. And courtesy. And respect.


He, he: Try to set up an appointment with a new dentist, say, the dental office of Dr. Michael Smith.

You, on the phone (without greeting, this saves time and because you have seen this in movies): "Is Mike there?"
Receptionist: "Who is speaking, please?"
You: "Tell him to fill out the form about his rates that I just emailed and to send three references and his resume ASAP."
Receptionist: Click.



 
Taija Hyvönen
Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 11:30
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
Addressing me by first name only is not a problem, it's not that formal in Finnish anyway... Dec 27, 2008

... if only the name they mostly use was actually my first name. I do try to take it as a compliment that people keep confusing me with our president (whose first name differs from mine by one letter).

Back to topic, is this because they think we are so desperate for a job that we have to swallow anything? To the original poster, think about what doing business with a person like that would be if they make such a scene of one email. Not very pleasant... surely you can do better than
... See more
... if only the name they mostly use was actually my first name. I do try to take it as a compliment that people keep confusing me with our president (whose first name differs from mine by one letter).

Back to topic, is this because they think we are so desperate for a job that we have to swallow anything? To the original poster, think about what doing business with a person like that would be if they make such a scene of one email. Not very pleasant... surely you can do better than that.
Collapse


 
Mahmoud Rayyan
Mahmoud Rayyan  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 11:30
English to Arabic
TOPIC STARTER
I got your point Dec 27, 2008

Taija Salo wrote:

this because they think we are so desperate for a job that we have to swallow anything? To the original poster, think about what doing business with a person like that would be if they make such a scene of one email. Not very pleasant... surely you can do better than that.



Yes Taija, you are totally right in this,
Many thanks


 
Khrystene (X)
Khrystene (X)
Australia
Polish to English
+ ...
Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam... Dec 27, 2008

Lovely SPAM, wonderful SPAM....

Forget it. If he was your 'superior' he wouldn't write in such a way.


 
Kevin Lossner
Kevin Lossner  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 09:30
German to English
+ ...
Very sweet Dec 27, 2008

Nicole Schnell wrote:
... this is about business English 101. And courtesy. And respect.

Try to set up an appointment with a new dentist, say, the dental office of Dr. Michael Smith.

You, on the phone (without greeting, this saves time and because you have seen this in movies): "Is Mike there?"
Receptionist: "Who is speaking, please?"
You: "Tell him to fill out the form about his rates that I just emailed and to send three references and his resume ASAP."
Receptionist: Click


Ouch. I cringe at the thought of such a scenario. I would not dream of calling a cleaning lady or a gardener on the phone and treating them that way. (That's not a deliberate class distinction on my part, just a choice of two random examples of different and quite valuable professions that some people might look down their noses at.) But that's the sort of extreme rudeness we deal with almost daily. Of course, what Mahmoud was confronted with is even more extreme, and the idiot who approached him that way deserves to be shunned or worse.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:30
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Allow more leeway on first contact, I say Dec 28, 2008

Nicole Schnell wrote:
- My name is not "Hi!"
- My name is not "translator"
- My name, to complete strangers, is not "Nicole" but Ms. or Mrs. Schnell. I might be twice your age. Who are you anyway?
- The fact that I am living in the US does not entitle you as a foreigner / a foreign company to be on a first-name basis, even if this is quite common among business associates. Which is a different story. How about becoming an associate first?


I believe that when two people start conversing, one must allow some leeway for mistakes until both parties find each other. We can't expect the other party to know instinctively how one wants to be addressed. I think we must always assume good faith in our business dealings until bad faith is proven or indicated.

Veering somewhat off-topic, but... As for "Ms Schnell", how would a stranger know that you're not a man? Nicole is not an uncommon male name (see http://www.babynames.it/boyname/Nicole-meaning.html) and your profile photo does not show your genitals. That said, although it is not clear what gender you are on the small version of your photo, when I view the larger version on your profile page, it is clearer to me that you are indeed female.


 
Nicole Schnell
Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:30
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
@Samuel Dec 28, 2008

Samuel Murray wrote:

your profile photo does not show your genitals.

...

when I view the larger version on your profile page, it is clearer to me that you are indeed female.



ROFL, that's is the best thing I have ever heard in a long time. We should introduce a new rule: Female translators are supposed to wear something pink, wear a ribbon in their hair and show serious cleavage in their profile pics.



Back to topic:

ESPECIALLY when you start conversing you should opt for the polite version. Not the other way around. You never get a second chance to make a first impression.


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Bad behaviour or not







Trados Studio 2022 Freelance
The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.

Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.

More info »
Anycount & Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000

Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.

More info »