| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | What is meant by 'Professional Members'? (staff: job post member-only restriction message, updated) Thread poster: writeaway
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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| entry barriers -vs- access barriers | Sep 25, 2018 |
While the term "professional" is frivolously used to tell paying members from free users, investing in one's business, providing relevant info, and complying to specific terms does make paying members seem more professional--or more serious, at least.
As for casuistry, at ProZ they could rank/name free and paying members at will, whereas 'professional' just sounds better to feel peculia... See more While the term "professional" is frivolously used to tell paying members from free users, investing in one's business, providing relevant info, and complying to specific terms does make paying members seem more professional--or more serious, at least.
As for casuistry, at ProZ they could rank/name free and paying members at will, whereas 'professional' just sounds better to feel peculiar. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | This does not even make sense | Sep 26, 2018 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
[stuff deleted]
The concept of (paid) members vs. (free) users seems pretty clear to me.
Maybe to you, but it isn’t clear (or if you like, in plain language). For what it’s worth, what you call “free users” are called “members” on a competitor’s site.
Paid members have made an inve$tment in Proz, by paying a subscription. They are stakeholders. If Proz suddenly shut down while their subscription hasn't expired yet, they'll have lost money.
Free users simply use the features that are given for free. They hardly have a stake in Proz. If Proz shut down, they'd move elsewhere, having lost nothing material.
I don’t know if you’ve forgotten how it is to be a non-paying member, or whether you’ve always paid, but this cannot be further from the truth.
If you are a non-paying member you need to pay for each bid, and you have to keep a minimum balance in your account (you can’t deposit just the bidding fee). It’s not just paying members also have monetary stakes on the site.
[Edited at 2018-09-26 04:50 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 21:59
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| I'm afraid you too are out of touch | Sep 26, 2018 |
Ambrose Li wrote:
If you are a non-paying member you need to pay for each bid, and you have to keep a minimum balance in your account (you can’t deposit just the bidding fee). It’s not just paying members also have monetary stakes on the site
All that stopped last November, Ambrose. Nowadays, non-paying users simply can't qote for jobs through the ProZ.com interface or see BB records.
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Sheila Wilson wrote:
All that stopped last November, Ambrose. Nowadays, non-paying users simply can't qote for jobs through the ProZ.com interface or see BB records.
I just checked, and you can still see the overall BB rating and the individual ratings, but not the comments or the names of who's left them.
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| Mixed feelings | Sep 26, 2018 |
writeaway wrote:
Mirko Mainardi wrote:
At any rate, again... in a "community" there aren't "users" and "members", just "members". Then a more apt (and IMHO conceptually fair) distinction would be between "paying" and "non-paying" members.
Once upon a time we were all members. Those who paid (and I was one of them) were called Platinum members to distinguish them from members who didn't pay. But we were a community and no member really cared who paid and who didn't. Lots of people who used to be on the site and never paid were actually some of the best translators among us. And many of them didn't show up on the site with their real names or with mug shots.
I think I "arrived" here right after things had changed from what you were describing above, in 2009/10, so I can't really compare now to the time you're referring to, but even comparing now to when I first joined, it seems rather evident to me things have been following an apparently similar pattern, that can perhaps be loosely condensed in one word: "commercialism".
In fact, I'm not so sure this can be really defined as a "community" (in any of the possible meanings of the word): what do we really have in common? Sometimes by reading the fora, seeing the "jobs" posted on the board, the questions asked in kudoz, etc. I get the impression that not even our profession is a common and unifying trait (beyond the label itself), let alone our interests and goals... so perhaps "users" (and "clients"?) would be more appropriate anyway...
As for the link between paying, or showing one's real name/picture, and being a good translator/interpreter, you're preaching to the choir, as I've never considered a non-paying "member" any different than a paying one on that basis alone, and I'm convinced the opposite is also true (i.e. that being a paying, "paying+", CPN, etc. "member" doesn't really mean anything - per se - in terms of professional skills, experience and quality). However, as a side note, I also believe that showing one's real name and picture would probably be perceived as more "professional" (in the other sense of the word) by prospective clients (so, again, more a matter of image than substance), but I know some people are not very interested in that, or don't want their names associated with proz (as you were saying yourself in a now deleted post) or with the opinions they express on the fora (and I have mixed feelings about that too...), etc.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 16:59
Spanish to English
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| And what's more... | Sep 26, 2018 |
Mirko Mainardi wrote:
Sometimes by reading the fora, seeing the "jobs" posted on the board, the questions asked in Kudoz, etc. I get the impression that not even our profession is a common and unifying trait (beyond the label itself), let alone our interests and goals... so perhaps "users" (and "clients"?) would be more appropriate anyway...
I agree - and the above doesn't even address the jockeying, posturing, and antagonism that is sometimes evident in kudoz, and that seems to be more prevalent now than it was 15 or even 10 years ago.
Then again, maybe it is just that I now find such behavior more irritating, especially when it is displayed by experienced translators, and when there is no mistaking its intent....
[Edited at 2018-09-26 14:18 GMT]
| | | | writeaway
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | This job is restricted to ProZ.com paying members | Sep 26, 2018 |
Jared Tabor wrote:
Hi all,
The idea was to differentiate between membership for individuals and membership for businesses. It would probably make it clearer to add in the term "paying", or simply say something like This job is restricted to ProZ.com paying members.
Jared
That would be really great if the 'professional members' reference could be changed to your suggested phrasing.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| allusive thinking | Sep 27, 2018 |
Charlie, as a professional (a linguist specialist), you should see the meaning behind wording and that "professional" in this case is but a politically-correct name for "privileged" users, nothing personal.
It's like they surrogate money into "chips" in casinos, so gamblers would easier part with their converted money, or like companies substitute and overuse "managers", "directors", "CEOs", "Presidents", "VIPs", and other funky names, so employees and participants (buyers) would fe... See more Charlie, as a professional (a linguist specialist), you should see the meaning behind wording and that "professional" in this case is but a politically-correct name for "privileged" users, nothing personal.
It's like they surrogate money into "chips" in casinos, so gamblers would easier part with their converted money, or like companies substitute and overuse "managers", "directors", "CEOs", "Presidents", "VIPs", and other funky names, so employees and participants (buyers) would feel more proud. A more notorious example might be a diploma mill, when people just buy phony titles and credentials--"BA", "Master of...", "PhDs"...
Indeed, it's just words/names, which have very little to do with Professionalism, if any.
Yet I see nothing wrong with paying members being named as "professionals" at ProZ and other places. ▲ Collapse
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| Unfortunate wording | Sep 28, 2018 |
DZiW wrote:
"professional" in this case is but a politically-correct name for "privileged" users,
Of course it is. But seeing as this is a site where translators collaborate, network, apply for jobs and show their skills, the wording "professional" is somewhat unfortunate, as it implies that those who do not pay are "unprofessional". Paid membership does not necessarily equal professionalism.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| world-wide attention | Sep 30, 2018 |
Fiona, whatever they state about "equality", people are born different, have individual skills, features, and preferences, and tend to differ. Unlike interpreters working with other people (human-human relations), most even decent translators (mostly working with papers) are very poor businesspersons. So, what might be wrong with naming translators who act more professionally, investing in their biz and increasing their chances to succeed, as "professional"? Business-wise, they are more profe... See more Fiona, whatever they state about "equality", people are born different, have individual skills, features, and preferences, and tend to differ. Unlike interpreters working with other people (human-human relations), most even decent translators (mostly working with papers) are very poor businesspersons. So, what might be wrong with naming translators who act more professionally, investing in their biz and increasing their chances to succeed, as "professional"? Business-wise, they are more professional, yes?
Once again: as a distinction (or even an honor), companies may name their staff and clients as precious metals, gems, crew members, or cartoons ranks--whatever. As a distinguished "professional" (paying) member, would you prefer "GOLD", "EMERALD", "AMERICAN", "CO-FOUNDER", "STEWARD" or "MICKEY", perhaps? Joking)
No matter this politically-corrected Orwellianism for even the fact so many translators don't get they are doing--first of all--business and should do everything to support it makes the title "professional" very true.
On the other side, if "professional" members also say they don't like such a name... the company should take it seriously
[Edited at 2018-09-30 08:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | +1 for "Paying members" | Sep 30, 2018 |
In my book, a professional translator is simply someone who earns money from this activity. Not somebody who pays to be one (or holds a certification, for that matter).
Money is also what distinguishes an amateur from a professional: no value judgement should be attached to this divide. Same goes for paying versus non-paying members.
A paying member myself, I agree the wording "professional members" is unfortunate and should be reviewed. Even with caps (to show it refer... See more In my book, a professional translator is simply someone who earns money from this activity. Not somebody who pays to be one (or holds a certification, for that matter).
Money is also what distinguishes an amateur from a professional: no value judgement should be attached to this divide. Same goes for paying versus non-paying members.
A paying member myself, I agree the wording "professional members" is unfortunate and should be reviewed. Even with caps (to show it refers to a specific ProZ subscription type), I find it problematic.
There are other ways to heighten the public perception of the translation profession, and to further the case against rampant commodification.
Strengthening any semblance of community among translators certainly counts among such ways. Creating artificial divisions in our discourse certainly doesn't.
Jean ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 21:59
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| +1 for "paying" | Sep 30, 2018 |
Jean Dimitriadis A paying member myself, I agree the wording "professional members" is unfortunate
I think there's quite a strong correlation between being a professional translator and paying for membership on the largest site where we can find clients etc ("etc" covering all the other aspects of ProZ.com). Anyone who hopes to gain clients here and yet can't afford (after a few months) or can't see the importance of investing such a small sum really needs to review their business model.
However, we do have to acknowledge that many perfectly professional translators do not see ProZ.com as a place to look for clients, so they can't see the value of paying for membership. And coughing up $100 or so certainly doesn't make you any more professional.
I'd be more than happy to be called what I am: a paying member (who is also a professional translator. ). Maybe a subscriber if you want a new word?
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writeaway
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER
I just noticed this on a job posting (that I won't be able to bid on):
Restricted job What does this mean?
This job is restricted to
ProZ.com paying members.
I find this very fair. It only reflects on my status as non-paying Proz member and not on my status as professional translator.
Thank you so much (Jared?) for changing the wording.
| | | | | Messaging updated | Oct 4, 2018 |
Sorry, I was on my way back here to post an update but was sidetracked! The messaging has been updated to be a bit clearer, as discussed. Thanks writeaway for bringing it up, and to everyone who weighed in.
Jared
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| common misconception | Oct 5, 2018 |
Thank you, Jared.
Unlike many believes, the "freedom" of "democracy" is not a "power of people", but "rule of minority with a right to vote". As far as translators don't get that professionalism concerns not only linguistics, but also business skills, they just unaware "professional translators" doing biz are more professional than those not doing biz, so "more professional" is rather awkward.
However, if "professionals" wish "paying members" (I'd prefer "VIP"), then it... See more Thank you, Jared.
Unlike many believes, the "freedom" of "democracy" is not a "power of people", but "rule of minority with a right to vote". As far as translators don't get that professionalism concerns not only linguistics, but also business skills, they just unaware "professional translators" doing biz are more professional than those not doing biz, so "more professional" is rather awkward.
However, if "professionals" wish "paying members" (I'd prefer "VIP"), then it's ok) ▲ Collapse
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