Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Japanese term or phrase:
身の世界
English translation:
true self
Added to glossary by
Christopher W Gladden
Jan 7, 2015 09:00
9 yrs ago
Japanese term
United States
身の世界
Japanese to English
Other
Religion
or Philosophy, or Psychology... anyway, Buddhism
I tentatively translated this as "the realm of the body" but it seems a bit strange to me here.
(思いを）手放したときには見聞覚知と身の世界つまり青空の世界がまったく違うんだっていうことがわかる。非連続なんだ、言語道断なんだということがわかる。
It's the 身I'm not sure best how to handle. They had spoken previously about the centrality of the body to zazen, and that seems to be what he's referring to. So maybe something like "world of the body" is okay... I look forward to hearing what you think.
Thanks so much.
(思いを）手放したときには見聞覚知と身の世界つまり青空の世界がまったく違うんだっていうことがわかる。非連続なんだ、言語道断なんだということがわかる。
It's the 身I'm not sure best how to handle. They had spoken previously about the centrality of the body to zazen, and that seems to be what he's referring to. So maybe something like "world of the body" is okay... I look forward to hearing what you think.
Thanks so much.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | true self |
Kendriya .
|
| 3 | corporeal world |
David Gibney
|
| 3 | the world of physical experience and the awareness of it |
Marc Brunet
|
Proposed translations
+1
2 hrs
Kendriya .
Japan
Japan
Specializes in field
Japan
20 years in translation
Native in: Bulgarian 
Works in: Japanese to English, Japanese to Bulgarian, Bulgarian to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
11
Selected
true self
Hi:)
In the contemporary Japanese, 身 means "body", indeed, but I have came across texts where it is used as "self; oneself". In the past, it also had the meaning of "body-mind-spirit trinity". This is what this text is about, I guess, and I think the focus of the first sentence is on 見聞覚知と身の世界つまり青空の世界, i.e. 見聞覚知 is distinguished from 身の世界, which, in turn, is likened to 青空の世界. And "blue sky" is a metaphor for the true self, which appears when the "clouds" of thoughts, desires, etc. are done away . Also, I think we do not need to translate 世界 literally.
I therefore suggest the following translation:
When you let your thoughts (feelings, desires) go, you understand that the sensual world (or the world of six human faculties) is completely different from that of your true self. This is something that goes beyond words and logic (explanation).
In the contemporary Japanese, 身 means "body", indeed, but I have came across texts where it is used as "self; oneself". In the past, it also had the meaning of "body-mind-spirit trinity". This is what this text is about, I guess, and I think the focus of the first sentence is on 見聞覚知と身の世界つまり青空の世界, i.e. 見聞覚知 is distinguished from 身の世界, which, in turn, is likened to 青空の世界. And "blue sky" is a metaphor for the true self, which appears when the "clouds" of thoughts, desires, etc. are done away . Also, I think we do not need to translate 世界 literally.
I therefore suggest the following translation:
When you let your thoughts (feelings, desires) go, you understand that the sensual world (or the world of six human faculties) is completely different from that of your true self. This is something that goes beyond words and logic (explanation).
Note from asker:
| Hi Kendriya, and thanks for another thoughtful answer. That 身の世界 is in part referring to a Dogen quote from earlier in the text: "禅あれば道を得ることは正しく身を以て得るなり。” Looking at the surrounding verses in it's source, Shobogenzo-zuimonki, and comparing those with an "official" Soto English translation, turns out that 身 at first refers to the flesh alone. But by the time it gets to where we are, suddenly the same 身 means "body and mind." Yikes! So this is just a long way around to say I agree with mmb42. Great. Thanks! |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
8 mins
David Gibney
Ireland
Ireland
Native in English
Ireland
Professional, punctual translations
Native in: English 
Works in: Japanese to English, English to Japanese
corporeal world
"Corporeal world" is the first thing that came to my mind.
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Note added at 10 mins (2015-01-07 09:11:01 GMT)
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"The realm of the body" could be an option.
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Note added at 10 mins (2015-01-07 09:11:01 GMT)
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"The realm of the body" could be an option.
44 mins
Marc Brunet
Australia
Australia
Australia
To seize the 'point' beyond the words
Native in: French
Works in: Japanese to English, Japanese to French, French to English
the world of physical experience and the awareness of it
My background knowledge of buddhism is very thin, and there are two terms in your passages I would not risk translating without a good fix on what they actually refer to, but one thing seems clear at least: parsing [見聞覚知と身]の世界 this way makes it easier to arrive at the above offering.
But would be grateful for your rendering of 「青空」and 「言語道断」in that passage. Here is below my fumbling through it... Thank you for your corrections.
But would be grateful for your rendering of 「青空」and 「言語道断」in that passage. Here is below my fumbling through it... Thank you for your corrections.
Example sentence:
Once you have parted with desire, the world of physical experience and the awareness of it, i.e. the world of [青空」 appears to you as completely different. You then realise that it is indeed 'dis-continuous', [言語道断='shockingly disconcerting
Note from asker:
| Hello, and thanks for your thoughts. 青空、as Kendriya points out, refers to our true nature. In this monk's English talks he uses the literal "Clear Sky," so I do as well (in the context of the book that meaning is clear.) 言語道断 here isn't the coloquial phrase, but has the original Buddhist connotations of "cutting through language." In this case I translated it "beyond intellect." Thanks again! |
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