Oct 12, 2006 10:56
17 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

dalle-jardin

French to English Tech/Engineering Architecture Urban planning
La couverture est une dalle-jardin, plantée d’arbres fruitiers, traversée d’un canal de recueil des eaux.

Does anyone know what the term for dalle-jardin is?

The only reference I have come across that sounds similar is the Jardin Atlantique
http://www.insecula.com/salle/MS00999.html

It sounds like it should be "garden square" or some such.

Discussion

Tony M Oct 12, 2006:
Yes, you see Miranda, that 'patrimoine' ref. you found explains it exactly as I've described, and explains the use of 'couverture' too.
Tony M Oct 12, 2006:
Yes, there's no doubting it's a roof garden! That use of 'couverture' should not surprise, if it comes along with descriptions of other structural aspects of the building.
Janet Ross Snyder Oct 12, 2006:
For me, the use of the verb 'coiffer' confirms that this garden is overhead.
Miranda Joubioux (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2006:
I don't think so Jeanette, not in this context. Here's another text about the Jardin Atlantique: Le Jardin Atlantique coiffe la gare Montparnasse
depuis 1994. Les concepteurs ont réussi à surmonter
les contraintes techniques d'un jardin sur dalle :
les allées et les pelouses recouvrent les zones
de moindre résistance et les arbres sont à la verticale
des poteaux qui soutiennent la dalle.

It's got to be some sort of slab.
Jeanette Phillips Oct 12, 2006:
dalle means paving slab - often for gardens. You can also obtain wooden squares of decking for covering garden surfaces, patios and walkways. So I can't help thinking this means paved, especially if it is in a shopping centre.
Miranda Joubioux (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2006:
Miranda Joubioux (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2006:
I've just found this other text on the same garden - leading me to believe that Dusty's interpretation is the right one.

Le jardin sur dalle du Centre Commercial fait appel aux essences telles que bambous, pommiers ornementaux, magnolias, prunus - et s’étend sur 4000 m2 – telle une respiration verte dans le bâti. Poteries de terre cuite, pierres de schiste rouge agrémentent ces jardins suspendus.
Miranda Joubioux (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2006:
Maybe "couverture" refers to "plant cover" and not "roofing".
Miranda Joubioux (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2006:
By the way - this text is about a shopping centre.

Proposed translations

+1
2 hrs
Selected

more comments

Strictly speaking it is not a "couverture" which is sloped, but "étanchéité" (flat roofing). I can't see a garden on a pitched roof!

IMO "roof garden" conveys the message. Anyone who knows about these things will know it requires a concrete slab of suitable strength to support the depth of earth required, the water that earth can contain, the weight of the trees, etc.

I did a long translation earlier this year on flat roofs, and "toitures végétalisées" of different kinds took up a dozen pages. Some quotes:

Toiture végétalisée Eco-roof, turf roof, grass roof [Web], planted roof, green roof [Barbour91p472]; can be intensive (higher plants) or extensive (grasses; may be a brown roof), sedum roof

• Roof gardens: flat roofs covered with earth (at least 30 cm deep) and plants and shrubs (intensive green roofs). Zero fall is permitted; if the roof has walkways, the 1% fall required for water runoff can be obtained with the walkway material.

• Eco-roofs: flat roofs covered with earth (up to 10 cm deep) and grass or ground-cover plants (extensive green roofs). Falls can range from 0 to 25%.

 Roof gardens and eco-roofs
• Roof gardens
 Roof gardens generally receive foot traffic and look like traditional gardens.
 They can be built only on concrete roof slabs. The depth of soil can vary from 0.30 to 1.00 m.

• Eco-roofs
 Eco-roofs are not trafficable. Access is restricted to the purposes of maintenance of the waterproofing and plants.
 Plants are chosen to require less maintenance and watering than roof gardens. They are hardy ground-cover plants (25 cm high at most) with low nutritional requirements that reproduce and spread well. Mixing several carefully selected varieties achieves a multicoloured effect that changes with the seasons.
 The soil depth is small (3 to 20 cm) and therefore implies low imposed loads on the structure (115 to 135 kg/m²). Eco-roofs can therefore be built on concrete, steel or wooden loadbearing members.
• The special features of roof gardens and eco-roofs are as follows
(see illustrations overleaf).
 A waterproofing system treated with a root-repellent; the product's data sheet should be consulted.
 A drain layer conveying water to outlets and enabling roots to breathe; it consists of expanded clay aggregate, pozzolane, pebbles, gravel, or sheets of ribbed cellular polystyrene; it is between 6 and 10 cm thick.
 A filter layer holding back fines of the topsoil to prevent them clogging the drainage layer; it must be watertight and rotproof, and resist tearing and punching (perforation); it usually consists of layers of rockwool or non-woven synthetics.
 A layer of soil, between 3 and 20 cm deep for eco-roofs and 30 cm and 1 m deep for roof gardens.
 There should be a sterile zone or edging about 40 cm wide around the perimeter of the roof to facilitate inspection of upstands, rainwater drainage, and the height of upstands.
 This sterile zone must be separated from the eco-roof area by perforated metal strips or concrete or brick kerbs holding back the earth but allowing water to drain out.

Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Well said, that man!
10 mins
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "You have all been really helpful, and the awful moment now comes when I have to choose someone's answer. I really liked concrete deck garden, but it didn't work in the context since the area is really very large and I see a deck as being small (perhaps incorrectly so). I did find an article referring to this term. In the end, Bourth's answer was what decided me, since it was so detailed. It is of course a roof garden. Once again, thank you all for your help. I was not familiar with this concept even though I have translated other texts on roof gardens. "
-1
5 mins

slate tiled garden

a wild guess

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Note added at 18 mins (2006-10-12 11:15:02 GMT)
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"flagstone garden" gets over 10,000 googles

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Note added at 47 mins (2006-10-12 11:44:08 GMT)
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the important notion here is that visitor can walk through the garden on tiles, flagstones, walkways or whatever you want to call them
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : But it says it 'is' a 'dalle', not that it has paths made of them; and when did you last see 'dalle' meaning slate? And can you tile with slates? 'slate flags', yes... But I think this is 'dalle' as in 'floor slab', not 'flagstone'
4 mins
but it is indeed most likely a garden with slate tiles on which visitors walk
Something went wrong...
+2
11 mins

roof garden or green roof

It's becoming popular to use turf as a roofing material.

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Note added at 50 mins (2006-10-12 11:46:32 GMT)
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From the Petit Larousse:
Dalle (3) Grand espace réunissant des immeubles modernes à un niveau exhaussé, dit rez-de-dalle.

Couverture (2) Constr. Agencement de matériaux (tuiles, ardoises, etc.) recouvrant un bâtiment pour protéger des intemperies.
Note from asker:
That was my first thought, but like dusty the "dalle" bit bothered me. It is planted with trees, so must be structurally strong. I've translated a few texts about roof gardens and they have never been called "dalle-jardin".
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Totally agree, as far as this goes... but I have this nagging feeling that one shouldn't simply leave out the 'dalle' bit...?
9 mins
Thanks, Dusty. Dalle also seems to have a meaning close to 'raised garden' all by itself, as referenced in my note.
agree Bourth (X) : Roof garden. Not green roof (see below)
2 hrs
Thanks, Bourth
Something went wrong...
+3
13 mins

See comment below...

Miranda, I can't give you the actual term, but I think I can give you some sort of explanation which may help you find it.

I think you'll find that 'dalle' is being used here in the sense of 'a cast concrete floor slab' — i.e. this is not just some flimsy roof covering, it is a solid, non-nonsesne load-bearing poured concrete slab (so you can walk around up there, and of course, to take the weight of earth and plants etc.)

'rooftop garden built on a concrete slab' would be my interpretation of it, but rather unwieldy to use as a term in itself; though I'm not even sure if one exists?

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-10-12 12:46:11 GMT)
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Naturally, earth weighs a lot, which is why they put the even heavier trees in places where there are support pillars underneath, to take both the weight, and the strain of windage.

A 'real' planted garden with soil etc. couldn't possibly be supported on anything less than a concrete 'dalle' — otherwise, one would be limited to restricted numbers of planters dotted around wherever there was some support...
Peer comment(s):

agree Jeanette Phillips
28 mins
Thanks, Jeanette!
agree CMJ_Trans (X) : why not a concrete DECK?
2 hrs
Thanks, CMJ! Oh yes, indeed that's perfect, you ought to post it as an answer.
agree Bourth (X) : See more below
2 hrs
Thanks, Alex! Only waiting for you to come along...
Something went wrong...
21 days

garden tile/s

Could this be a translation ?:-
The covering has garden-tiles, planted fruit trees, crossed by a channel of re-circulated water.
Something went wrong...
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