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Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

Drs. (if required to be translated in context)

English translation:

Doctorandus/Doctoranda and explain in a translators' note

Added to glossary by Textpertise
Apr 8, 2010 15:18
14 yrs ago
54 viewers *
Dutch term

Drs.

Dutch to English Other Education / Pedagogy titulatuur
Weet iemand hoe je 'Drs. / Doctoranda' naar het Engels vertaalt?

Alvast bedankt.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 Doctorandus/Doctoranda and explain in a translators' note
5 +1 Masters in xxx / Masters Degree
4 <no translation>
References
according to
Change log

Apr 13, 2010 08:55: Textpertise Created KOG entry

Discussion

Carolyn Gille Apr 9, 2010:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorandus It's only the wikipedia, but seems to explain the drs. in detail.
In Nederland betreft het een academische titel die men verkreeg (in enkele gevallen: verkrijgt) na het behalen van het doctoraalexamen aan een Nederlandse universiteit, dit na meestal vier of vijf jaar studie. Behalve aan de universiteiten kon men ook aan gelijkwaardige, maar gespecialiseerde instellingen als de Nederlandse Economische Hogeschool te Rotterdam, de Landbouwhogeschool in Wageningen, Katholieke Hogeschool Tilburg de drs.-titel verwerven, dus ook voordat deze instellingen de titel van universiteit kregen.

In strikte zin impliceert deze titel dat de academische carrière nog niet is afgerond, maar slechts een tussenstap is naar de titel van doctor. In de meeste gevallen wordt na het behalen van het doctoraalexamen de universitaire studie als afgesloten beschouwd en begint de 'doctorandus' met zijn maatschappelijke carrière. Slechts in een minderheid van de gevallen volgt nog doctoraatsonderzoek onder supervisie van een hoogleraar, met verslaglegging hiervan in een proefschrift, afgerond met een promotie waarna de graad van doctor wordt behaald. Men is dan gerechtigd de titel doctor (dr.) te voeren.
kamilw Apr 9, 2010:
Hehe no, I don't know the system well enough to make such judgements :) Just thought that being a doctorandos implies doing your PhD, didn't know you're automatically becoming Drs. when receiving MSc.
In my language 'doktorant' is a person doing their PhD but it's not a scientific degree.
Lianne van de Ven Apr 9, 2010:
You mean 'since the system degraded'? ;-)
kamilw Apr 9, 2010:
Lianne, dank je wel voor toelichting. You're right that 'student' is not appropriate here, I wrote it from my narrow-minded scientific perspective :-) where it's usually necessary to be a PhD student in order to get the degree, but it's not always the case outside experimental sciences. 'PhD candidate' is much better (as an explaining note, not a translation), whether you intend to obtain a PhD or not, but that's another story :)
Lianne van de Ven Apr 9, 2010:
@kamilw That is a limited perspective, and 'PhD student' would not be a good translation. You receive the drs title when you complete your 'masters' program, and it is irrelevant whether you join a PhD program after that. You'll still be a drs. In the US it is common to use Ms. or Ma. or Bs. or any of those abbreviations following your last name whenever you want to (but usually, of course, within the context of work/job, and not as a title on a piece of mail). (By the way: I call myself a Psychology BS)
kamilw Apr 8, 2010:
In a Dutch university where I worked (in science) the Drs. title is used by those in the process of obtaining the PhD degree, i.e. PhD students, no matter how advanced they are in their doctorate. So the most literal translation would be 'PhD student' or 'PhD candidate' but in English these are not official titles. IMHO Drs. should be left as it is with an explaining note.
philgoddard Apr 8, 2010:
Yes, it would be wrong to leave it out in this context.
Nina Breebaart (asker) Apr 8, 2010:
It is an official document - university diploma. I do think it would be disrespectful and wrong to drop it.
Textpertise Apr 8, 2010:
What kind of document is it? I am not going to comment on the implication that "letteren" involves less work than other subjects. In the type of document that you are translating, do you think the title is important? Is it an official document? A bit more context could indicate whether you can drop the title or not. Do you think it would be disrespectful to drop the title in the context before you?
Nina Breebaart (asker) Apr 8, 2010:
Het gaat om iemand die in letteren afgestudeerd is.
Textpertise Apr 8, 2010:
On the contrary, you don't just drop it Having worked at the hub of a department of a teaching hospital in New York, I can assure you that anyone who has worked to achieve a Drs has worked very hard at it and is entitled to be called by that title. All professors of medicine, in whatever sub-discipline I have ever worked in, and I have worked in quite a few, also shared the opinion that if a title appears in correspondence or publications, that title needs to be retained if used in a formal context. It was universally regarded as impolite and insulting to the holder of the title not to reproduce that title where relevant. All assuming, of course, that they worked for their title - which in those days could be assumed.
philgoddard Apr 8, 2010:
You're quite right, Olly. I usually just leave out titles like these, as they won't mean anything to an English readership. I also leave out Dr unless it's a doctor of medicine. And if it's Prof. Dr, I just put Prof because the one qualification trumps the other.
Oliver Pekelharing Apr 8, 2010:
Drop it. You can't simply assign MA or MSc or any other equivalent title to a drs. You can cite what equivalent title applies based on information from Nuffic, for example:
"No English equivalent. This was the title traditionally granted to university graduates in all fields except law, agriculture and engineering. Literally, 'doctorandus' means 'one who is qualified to proceed for the title of doctor'. The title, abbreviated to drs., is written before the name. Since 1986 a 'doctorandus' has been entitled to use the title Master, abbreviated to M. and written after the name. Under the bachelor's-master's degree system, graduates of WO master's degree programmes can still choose to use this title if they wish."
Textpertise Apr 8, 2010:
Phil, you're in good company If I weren't married to an Ir, who needs to explain what his degree is, I wouldn't know it either. It is very complicated. Even the average Dutch person doesn't understand these degree designations. If you want some amusement, here is an example of the general confusion:
http://www.medischforum.nl/onderwerp/3511
Good for a laugh but not for a professional forum like ours.
I usually translate it as MA or MSc (as appropriate) but usually add a note to the effect that Drs is the Dutch equivalent of a PhD who has completed the studies but has not written, submitted and defended a dissertation.
philgoddard Apr 8, 2010:
It's never too late to learn something new in this game. I've been translating Drs as Dr for 21 years, and no one has ever pointed out my mistake!
Christine Gardner Apr 8, 2010:
If it is just a title in front of someone's name, you would probbaly omit it completely (in the Netherlands, titles are used more often than in UK/USA) and if it is important that the reader knows exactly what type of degree is involved, add M.A. or M.Sc. after the name.
Barend van Zadelhoff Apr 8, 2010:
MB I think MBBS is the near equivalent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine
Katja van Hellemond Apr 8, 2010:
Only thing I would like to point out in addition to the link provided and the comment by Lianne is that if this refers to a medical degree it would have to be MB.
Textpertise Apr 8, 2010:
Corrected link http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/other/35031-docto...
Hope this works for you.
Textpertise Apr 8, 2010:
Buck, link faulty FYI, when I click on your link, I get an error message.
Buck Apr 8, 2010:
asked and answered on proz http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/other/35031-docto... also easily found with a bit of searching on the Internet.
Textpertise Apr 8, 2010:
Doctorandus/Doctoranda with note Further to Lianne's comment, it also depends on how precise you need to be with the translation. If it is for documentation purposes, e.g. professional certification or university admission, then you must be very precise and the best, I feel, is to just spell out Doctorandus or Doctoranda as the case may be and then explain exactly what that means in your particular case in a translator's note. This also has the advantage that it allows any university or certifying body to check it out as well, knowing what it is called in Dutch.
Lianne van de Ven Apr 8, 2010:
Het hangt er van af waar iemand drs/dra in is:
http://www.grad.ilstu.edu/programs/key.shtml

Proposed translations

+2
19 hrs
Selected

Doctorandus/Doctoranda and explain in a translators' note

In a context which requires it, spell out in full, enter a footnote character immediately after the first appearance of the word and write a translators' note explaining what this means, as per voluminous instruction in References and Discussion notes herein.
Peer comment(s):
agree sindy cremer
2 hrs
agree Oliver Pekelharing
2 days 19 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
15 hrs

<no translation>

Of je een Masters hebt of niet hangt af van de opleiding die je hebt gevolgd. Een Drs kan dus ook een Bachelors degree zijn. Weglaten dus! Ook al loop je de risico dat de betreffende persoon het er niet mee eens is. In een CV is het inderdaad belangrijker maar de rest van de tekst laat als het goed is zien of de persoon ongeveer 3 jaar heeft gestudeerd (Bachelor) of ongeveer 5 jaar (Master, meestal met veel stages).
Ik heb zelf 5 jaar biologie gestudeerd in Nijmegen en omdat er 'Master's' op de Engelse versie van mijn bul staat mag ik achter mijn naam Msc zetten maar dat doe ik nooit. Alleen hier in Nederland zijn ze zo weg van titels.
In ieder geval NOOIT Dr!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2010-04-09 07:09:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I see now that I am repeating a lot of what has already been said. My apologies for not reading through all the comments properly!
Example sentence:

Zie ook: 'Righting English that's gone Dutch' door Joy Burrough ISBN 9076542082

Something went wrong...
+1
36 mins

Masters in xxx / Masters Degree

doctorandus (de ~ (m))
Master of Science (the ~), candidate for a doctor's degree (the ~)



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-09 05:23:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Master of Science (MSc) of Master of Arts (MA)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 uren (2010-04-09 07:55:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It's only the wikipedia, but seems to explain the Dutch "drs." in adequate detail. Especially the part about 5 years of study (3 or 4 years undergrad - BA, and then a year or two of a masters...), and the part about it being the 'tussenstap" between the start of a study, and going for your Phd...

In Nederland betreft het een academische titel die men verkreeg (in enkele gevallen: verkrijgt) na het behalen van het doctoraalexamen aan een Nederlandse universiteit, dit na meestal vier of vijf jaar studie. Behalve aan de universiteiten kon men ook aan gelijkwaardige, maar gespecialiseerde instellingen als de Nederlandse Economische Hogeschool te Rotterdam, de Landbouwhogeschool in Wageningen, Katholieke Hogeschool Tilburg de drs.-titel verwerven, dus ook voordat deze instellingen de titel van universiteit kregen.

In strikte zin impliceert deze titel dat de academische carrière nog niet is afgerond, maar slechts een tussenstap is naar de titel van doctor. In de meeste gevallen wordt na het behalen van het doctoraalexamen de universitaire studie als afgesloten beschouwd en begint de 'doctorandus' met zijn maatschappelijke carrière. Slechts in een minderheid van de gevallen volgt nog doctoraatsonderzoek onder supervisie van een hoogleraar, met verslaglegging hiervan in een proefschrift, afgerond met een promotie waarna de graad van doctor wordt behaald. Men is dan gerechtigd de titel doctor (dr.) te voeren.
Reference:

http://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/vertaal/NL/EN/doctorandus

Peer comment(s):
agree sindy cremer : I agree this comes closest, Carolyn, but I think Textpertise's suggestion is the way to go.
5 hrs
Thank you :-)
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

6 hrs
Reference:

according to

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorandus

Een academicus (universitair afgestudeerde) mag volgens de Wet op het Hoger onderwijs en Wetenschappelijk onderzoek (art. 7.20) in plaats van de mastertitel nog steeds de oude titulatuur bezigen,[1] ofwel: meester (mr.), doctorandus (drs.), ingenieur (ir.). Daarentegen is deze regeling niet van kracht voor mastertitels behaald in het hoger beroepsonderwijs. De graden MA, MSc en LLM mogen niet gecombineerd worden met de titels ir., mr. of drs.[2][3] In plaats van drs. A. Jansen, MSc, er moet gebruikt worden A. Jansen, M, MSc.[2] Een houder van een titel ir., mr. of drs. mag tekenen met M (van Master) achter zijn/haar naam, in plaats van de titel voeren voor zijn/haar naam.[3][4][5]
Something went wrong...
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