| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Turn-key translations? Thread poster: writeaway
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| Well put Heike! | Jul 19, 2009 |
And the rest too. Megalomania came to my mind when I read the way in which this system works.
What Lawyer-Linguist describes, in particular, is shocking for a lack of a better word.
| | | | | Indeed it does ... | Jul 19, 2009 |
Ralf Lemster wrote:
Agreed - ProZ.com's position in respect of 'turnkey' jobs indeed requires clarification. Simply reiterating old statements won't help if there is a fundamental shift in position.
Well, one old statement that won't be reiterated is the assurance some time back now that ProZ had no plans to become an agency!
I specifically remember it -- and from what I've been reading on blogs this weekend, I'm not the only one -- but naive little me believed it and didn't bookmark it at the time. Still, it's out there, somewhere, and maybe someone who is more organised than me in this department can provide the actual quote here.
I wonder what changed? Whatever did, transparency seems to have fallen by the wayside in the process.
[Edited at 2009-07-19 09:08 GMT]
| | | | Ralf Lemster 
Germany
Local time: 05:45
English to German
+ ...
| Au contraire... | Jul 19, 2009 |
Well, one old statement that won't be reiterated is the assurance some time back now that ProZ had no plans to become an agency!
Amazingly, Jason has upheld this notion in the related discussion in the Certified Pro forum, claiming that "clients" and "providers" are both considered users. (How that squares up with taking a commission is beyond me.)
Best,
Ralf
| | | | Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 05:45
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Any qualified translator I know will be much too busy with their regular clients to be interested in "short, quick-turnaround" translation jobs without decent minimum charge...
Somehow, I can't get the image of a translation sweat shop out of my mind.
The PRO thread regarding this subject has by now reached 10 pages and as far as I could read diagonally, there's enthusiastic early adopters, less enthusiastic second-thought providers and (lately, more and more I'd say) participants with comments pretty close to the general direction established here.
Regards
Vito
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Ralf Lemster wrote:
Well, one old statement that won't be reiterated is the assurance some time back now that ProZ had no plans to become an agency!
Amazingly, Jason has upheld this notion in the related discussion in the Certified Pro forum, claiming that "clients" and "providers" are both considered users. (How that squares up with taking a commission is beyond me.)
Best,
Ralf
Thanks for pointing that out Ralf (and confirming, by doing so, that I'm not suffering from some early-onset neurodegenerative disease, as I knew we'd be given that assurance at some time).
I don't have access to the forum in question, but the mind boggles ...
And of course you're right. Site management can play around with semantics as much as it likes, but the legal world tends not to get distracted by such veils, drawing them back to look at the actual nature of transactions. If it is taking a commission, turnkey translations, in simple terms, turns ProZ into an online agency specialising (for now, at least ) in small jobs at crappy rates (if the rates mentioned by PRen are the norm).
What's more, ProZ seems to be forcing those translators to use its online 'banking service' (the wallet) and -- in the absence of any announcement to the contrary -- takes a further 5% commission and holds on to those funds until month end, instead of paying the translator directly as soon as it's clear there are no quality issues.
| | | | PRen (X)
Canada
Local time: 00:45
French to English
+ ...
| Proz also forces | Jul 19, 2009 |
the "client" to use the wallet - it's the only payment option.
I haven't been paying much attention lately - I didn't realize there is a PRO forum (basically, I find the whole PRO concept ridiculous and a boondoggle). I'm assuming this issue is being "dealt with" there? There's a deafening silence from site management over here.
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PRen wrote:
[Proz also forces] the "client" to use the wallet - it's the only payment option.
So, the plot thickens -- powers that be, please correct me if I'm wrong -- is ProZ earning 33% commission on the translation (going by PRen's example) + 5% on the translator's use of the wallet + 5% on the client's use of the wallet?
Adding up to a whopping 43% (never mind the additional external charges both translator and client have to pay with their own banking institutions), where it seems ProZ is really just a paper-pusher and only gets actively involved in quality control if and when there is a dispute.
PS: Love the word boondoggle
[Edited at 2009-07-19 10:43 GMT]
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PRen (X)
Canada
Local time: 00:45
French to English
+ ...
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
PS: Love the word boondoggle
[Edited at 2009-07-19 10:43 GMT]
Too much government translation, I reckon.
| | | | Eric Hahn (X)
France
Local time: 05:45
French to German
+ ...
Because it's the same wording as for my "automatic agency"
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2. Work is automatically routed to the most suitable professional translators.
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They should add the steps of receiving several quotes and of paying in advance.
And, of course, "automatically" implies the lack of intermediary :
The translator as a paying member should get paid the full amoun... See more Because it's the same wording as for my "automatic agency"
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2. Work is automatically routed to the most suitable professional translators.
...
They should add the steps of receiving several quotes and of paying in advance.
And, of course, "automatically" implies the lack of intermediary :
The translator as a paying member should get paid the full amount !
[Modifié le 2009-07-19 11:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 05:45
French to German
+ ...
| Clear answer | Jul 19, 2009 |
Ralf Lemster wrote:
Hi again, Laurent,
I am afraid I cannot grasp the meaning of this question, Ralf. Do you mean:
- as the translator I am?
- as the client I could be?
- ...
As a paying member of this site.
Hope that clarifies it.
Best, Ralf
Thanks for clarifying, Ralf. My answer would be No, of course.
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-07-19 11:36 GMT]
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Now monopoly springs to mind and there was me thinking this was a no-no in the US.
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Helen Shiner
France
Local time: 05:45
Member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
| I agree with Nicole | Jul 19, 2009 |
Should it turn out to be the case that there is yet another way in which those of us who are fully paid-up members, but see no point or advantage in the PRO tag (if I want additional credentials I will go to an internationally-recognised translator organisation, thanks), are being manoeuvred out of potential client contacts, then I think Proz.com will find that many of us will not be renewing our memberships and will very probably be wanting our money back. I would certainly not be happy to be f... See more Should it turn out to be the case that there is yet another way in which those of us who are fully paid-up members, but see no point or advantage in the PRO tag (if I want additional credentials I will go to an internationally-recognised translator organisation, thanks), are being manoeuvred out of potential client contacts, then I think Proz.com will find that many of us will not be renewing our memberships and will very probably be wanting our money back. I would certainly not be happy to be funding something that gives clients a second rate product, and pays translators appalling rates. I hope those over on the PRO forum have the sense to see that this is serving them badly, too, and that the loss of many excellent, well-respected non-PRO translators will only serve to devalue the whole reputation and tenor of Proz.com. The fact that there is no openness on this score really is not on. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 05:45
French to German
+ ...
| Payments & rates | Jul 19, 2009 |
Eric Hahn wrote:
They should add the steps of receiving several quotes and of paying in advance.
AFAIR, payments must be made in advance and the rates offered to the client (I assume by P.) are non-negotiable. If I understood the whole thing as it should be, there is an automatic device that will be "knocking at the doors" of P members until it finds the perfect match.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 05:45
French to German
+ ...
| Bitter, bitter and even more bitter irony | Jul 19, 2009 |
Helen Shiner wrote:
I would certainly not be happy to be funding something that gives clients a second rate product, and pays translators appalling rates. I hope those over on the PRO forum have the sense to see that this is serving them badly, too, and that the loss of many excellent, well-respected non-PRO translators will only serve to devalue the whole reputation and tenor of Proz.com. The fact that there is no openness on this score really is not on.
Is that not what is called a "free market"? Nothing personal, Helen, but I can remember of recent fora posts in which the concept of the translation market as a "completely free" one was defended heavily and even in a ballistic fashion.
Like it or not (I have made my choice), the Turnkey offer is one of the expressions of this free market on ProZ. And I hardly know of a blue-eyed customer/client refusing such an offer, in which everything is secured + covered with the credibility ProZ still has.
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-07-19 11:35 GMT]
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