| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Question on weighted word count (WWC) Thread poster: cranium
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The last post I found on WWC was from January of 2009, so I hope noone minds a new thread on it. Practices evolve in two years...
I would like to gather your thoughts on the following type of WWC price schedule for agency rates.
% price per word
Repetitions 10%
100% matches 25%
95-99% matches 30%
85-94% matches 60%
| | | | | Way too little | Dec 23, 2010 |
It seems to be fairly standard but I wouldn't accept it - I point out that having to edit a part-match can be just as or even more time consuming than translating from scratch, and I therefore can't accept anything less than 100%.
Generally, if asked by a regular client, I'll apply 25% on repetitions /100% matches and 100% on everything else, or alternatively charge for a reduced number of words (how many is decided by me). Otherwise, I charge 100% for everything - although I will... See more It seems to be fairly standard but I wouldn't accept it - I point out that having to edit a part-match can be just as or even more time consuming than translating from scratch, and I therefore can't accept anything less than 100%.
Generally, if asked by a regular client, I'll apply 25% on repetitions /100% matches and 100% on everything else, or alternatively charge for a reduced number of words (how many is decided by me). Otherwise, I charge 100% for everything - although I will occasionally offer a spontaneous discount if there are a lot of repetitions. ▲ Collapse
| | | | cranium
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER
for confirming my hunch, Marie-Hélène.
I found the 60% for 85% matches especially low.
| | | | Gerard de Noord 
France
Local time: 19:42
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
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I like weighted word counts. An English agency sent me their XLS file and I've added a field to calculate the actual discount I'm giving compared to my normal Word word count. For one-day jobs it has always been a win-win situation.
Cheers,
Gerard
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| For the sake of interest... | Dec 24, 2010 |
SBlack wrote:
for confirming my hunch, Marie-Hélène.
I found the 60% for 85% matches especially low.
... what do you get for 84% matches? Full whack?
Quite honestly, I feel it depends on i) the quality of TM you are given to work with (assuming this is the case) and ii) the type of text. If the 100% matches are of the "Press OK to continue" type, you're laughing. If the 90% matches are longish sentences where only the name of a fairly technical part, that you need to look up, is different, you most definitely are not. I know some people turn into hysterical bed-wetters at the very mention of discounts of this type (whereas I turn into one at the mention of discounts for volume alone!) but quite honestly, I think the key thing is to be paid a fair sum for the work you are doing, and how that sum is calculated is between you and them.
| | | | cranium
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER
for your thoughts on the two different sides of the issues, Gérard and Charlie.
Another consideration is the following scenario: you have CAT tool X, the agency has CAT tool Y, and we know that their TMs are compatible in theory, but there are inevitably all those little snags along the way trying to reconcile the two. It seems to me that WWC is only profitable if translator and agency use an identical CAT tool.
| | | | | Seriously, though | Dec 24, 2010 |
a) what do you get for 84%?
b) define "profitable" as used in your last post, please.
| | | | cranium
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | The <85% matches are remunerated 100% | Dec 24, 2010 |
That is why I find the 60% for 85-94% matches very low indeed.
By profitable, I am referring to the translator's profit, ie income once average daily output is remunerated using this fee schedule.
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Theo Bernards (X)
France
Local time: 19:42
English to Dutch
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| Am I alone in thinking this is somewhat strange? | Dec 24, 2010 |
I see translating as a profession in which language conversions are solved by 'artisans', same as where attic conversions are handled by carpenters or where plumbing leaks are repaired by plumbers. I have never met a carpenter who gives a discount for the fact that he has to hammer identical nails or saw identical pieces of wood, let alone discounts for nails that are partially identical or pieces of wood that resemble in some way. Nor have I ever met a plumber who offers to repair every second ... See more I see translating as a profession in which language conversions are solved by 'artisans', same as where attic conversions are handled by carpenters or where plumbing leaks are repaired by plumbers. I have never met a carpenter who gives a discount for the fact that he has to hammer identical nails or saw identical pieces of wood, let alone discounts for nails that are partially identical or pieces of wood that resemble in some way. Nor have I ever met a plumber who offers to repair every second leak for half price. I think they'd laugh themselves silly at the mere notion of such discounts.
Such discounts seem based on the fact that the translation industry has en masse adopted CAT-tool standards, but CAT-tools are in my opinion tools for delivering a better quality, not reasons to negotiate a lower rate... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | One size rarely fits all | Dec 24, 2010 |
SBlack wrote:
That is why I find the 60% for 85-94% matches very low indeed.
Just wondered. I work for an agency that applies exactly that fee structure. I find it works out OK. Sometimes you get 85% matches that practically need to be re-written;sometimes you can leave a 75% match almost unchanged (change of tense, maybe, that kind of thing). Unless you have dozens of brackets, it is hard to devise a system without any apparent anomalies, and this one has always struck me, to be fair, that a 1% difference in matching = 40% difference in rate.
We should be grateful that we have not yet the stage of 99% match = 1% of rate, 98% match = 2% of rate, 97% match = 3% of rate, etc.
By profitable, I am referring to the translator's profit, ie income once average daily output is remunerated using this fee schedule.
Just wondered, because it seemed a slightly odd correlation to draw (profitability depending on same CAT tool). That agency I work for uses Trados, I'm a Wordfast man. As I said, I find it works, and as I also said earlier (at 1:03!), I think the main thing is your daily revenue for the work you do, an opinion we seem to share. However, we do not all have the same experience in such matters, and in different subject areas, it is possible that, for example, matches are not as useful as I find them to be (assuming the TM is reasonable, which is not always the case). You seem to have doubts about the whole thing, which is fair enough, it's your business decision to make for whatever reason you like. I just thought I'd mention that there are circumstances when it does work out just fine and dandy.
(Equally, I have plenty of clients who don't apply such discounts and I do prefer working for them, because I feel it is entirely me that gets the benefit of the CAT tool which I only paid for )
| | | | cranium
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | I agree with your illustrations | Dec 24, 2010 |
Theo Bernards wrote:
CAT-tools are in my opinion tools for delivering a better quality, not reasons to negotiate a lower rate...
I entirely agree!
Thanks to everyone for their input.
| | | | | No, you are not alone, Theo | Dec 24, 2010 |
Theo, I couldn't agree with you more! The final product of each translation assignment stands on its own, and should be charged as a separate item each time that it is undertaken, no matter how many parts of the whole are a repetition of previous translation work. I am against giving discounts for professional work, since I take care to provide a uniformly consistent, quality service every time that I accept a document for translation.
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Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:42
Spanish to English
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| To develop your analogy... | Jan 5, 2011 |
Theo Bernards wrote:
... let alone discounts for nails that are partially identical or pieces of wood that resemble in some way....
However, if a carpenter charges a sawing fee and a materials fee for 1m of wood, but cuts that 1m from a 2m piece, wouldn't you expect a slight discount on the sawing fee if you wanted the second piece too?
| | | | Rolf Kern
Switzerland
Local time: 19:42
English to German
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In memoriam
...these CAT tool tricks. I charge 50% for the 1st 100% repetition of a whole paragraph, 25% for the second 100% repetition, 12.5% for the 3trd 100% repetition and so on. And all this in the same file! Or should at the end be a reduction for repetitions of the same letter, such as "e"?
| | | | Theo Bernards (X)
France
Local time: 19:42
English to Dutch
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| The analogy is mainly to 'educate' agencies who demand such discounts | Jan 5, 2011 |
Because I am fully aware it is flawed at best, if not skewed: we are not artisans, we are service providers. But let's continue on this strain of thought:
Wendy Leech wrote:
Theo Bernards wrote:
... let alone discounts for nails that are partially identical or pieces of wood that resemble in some way....
However, if a carpenter charges a sawing fee and a materials fee for 1m of wood, but cuts that 1m from a 2m piece, wouldn't you expect a slight discount on the sawing fee if you wanted the second piece too?
The key is not what what I want but what I expect here: even if I want a discount for the sawing aspect, the carpenter will still look at me as if he sees water burning when I express that desire. I expect to see the back of his truck within 2 minutes if I express my expectation of that discount. Any agency can ask CAT-tool discounts till the cows come home and I have no problem with that other than not working for that agency, but the arrogance with which it is expected by quite a few agencies really gets up my craw. When asked, I say no. And if all translators would do this, the decline in rates might come to a grinding halt and we can all get a fair rate for our service.
Besides, the sawing fee will not be raised by any carpenter worth his salt: carpenters do not offer their wood with prices broken down into materials and sawing fees. They may offer materials at cost plus an hourly rate, but often they offer a lump sum per project AND they demand an upfront partial payment for large projects (I occasionally try that from agencies, but I have yet to succeed...).
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