| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Multiterm 2014, Termbase (default): Added terms disappear when application closes. Thread poster: Yoko Busk
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| your workaround is ineffectual, Akke | Feb 17, 2017 |
Tks Akke Wagenaar for his much-anticipated 'suggestion'. Unfortunately, this workaround doesn't work (at least for me, using Trados 2014 + Multiterm 2011 Desktop).
I tried for over 30~40 times by repeating adding/editing terms in Trados, while at the same time closely followed your 'workaround' (open/close MultiTerm termbase) and kept observing the time stamp change of .ldb file to make sure it got updated before I closed Trados. Still everything was in vain. Here is my observation... See more Tks Akke Wagenaar for his much-anticipated 'suggestion'. Unfortunately, this workaround doesn't work (at least for me, using Trados 2014 + Multiterm 2011 Desktop).
I tried for over 30~40 times by repeating adding/editing terms in Trados, while at the same time closely followed your 'workaround' (open/close MultiTerm termbase) and kept observing the time stamp change of .ldb file to make sure it got updated before I closed Trados. Still everything was in vain. Here is my observation data:
Before applying your 'workaround':
The success rate of adding a term is 70-75% (approximate).
After applying your 'workaround':
The success rate of adding a term is 75-80% (just the same or slightly better, insignificant though).
Conclusion:
It just makes no difference - parts of newly-added terms STILL vanish sporadically, unexpectedly and randomly without any reason even I followed your workaround. (Or to put it the other way round, most terms could still be added even I did not follow the workaround.)
I really hope someone here could bring this annoying problem to the attention of SDL Trados. It's mind-boggling to see such a severe problem/bug in such sophisticated software!~
[Edited at 2017-02-17 12:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 00:23
Italian to German
+ ...
| I'm very surprised to hear about all that! | Feb 17, 2017 |
Hello,
I have been following this Trados forum for years and I'm very surprised that I missed this topic from the start. I have been working in the 2014/2015 versions and I have also used the trial version of the 2017 version, but I never encountered this sort of trouble, but of course I'm not saying it doesn't exist...Maybe I have lost some terms without noticing it but I doubt.
There is a substantial difference from the middle versions of Studio 2014 and the 2015 (and later) versio... See more Hello,
I have been following this Trados forum for years and I'm very surprised that I missed this topic from the start. I have been working in the 2014/2015 versions and I have also used the trial version of the 2017 version, but I never encountered this sort of trouble, but of course I'm not saying it doesn't exist...Maybe I have lost some terms without noticing it but I doubt.
There is a substantial difference from the middle versions of Studio 2014 and the 2015 (and later) versions: Trados doesn't use Java anymore, and the MultiTerm interface in the Studio Editor is much faster and responsive other than having more features like changing terms on the fly etc. Generally there was the trouble with Terms not showing up in the 'Term Recognition' window, in some cases after some error messages, and this problem is the only I'm really aware of. The solution is to reset the window layout in the edtor (I don't pretend to know why this works). But losing terms? AFAIK it never happened to me in the last years. The reason may be the way I define termbases and the way I store them, so I'd like to share this.
- I only use the most simple termbase definition, the bilingual glossary at language level; no additional attributes to the terms;
- I changed the shortcut to F12 for quick-saving terms in the editor;
- I use the regular route with 'MultiTerm Convert' to import tab-separated text documents if I import into a new termbase; the format must be UTF-8 with the language codes in the first row; I plan to use the Glossary plugin / Glossary Converter (SDL AppStore) in the future.
- I merge different translations for a term in the Editor if I get the message '...already in the termbase';
- I only use file-based termbases during my projects, also more than 1, which are stored in a dedicated folder in my Document folder;
- I'm not using MT or web termbases;
- I do not handle packages, so I'm not even aware of problems related to them, I handle files directly and import them in a 'Project';
- I don't use project templates, I always define my projects from scratch;
- I am/was mostly using the 2014/2015 versions of Trados Freelance under Windows 7 Home Edition SP1. I recently have updated to the latest Java 64 Bit without harming the functions of Trados in any way (this may however influence older versions 2014 and prior).
At the end of my larger projects I often go through all segments adding terms to my main activated termbase; I did never feel any loss after re-opening my project and going on, but I cannot be 100% sure of course, although I would certainly notice some terms not being hilighted anymore (and which I saved before). I never noticed such missing occurences.
I'm also using other dictionaries during my projects that are separate programs which I can pop-up with a keystroke if I'm looking for specialized terms. They don't interfere with the Trados functions.
Essentialy that's it for me. I cannot imagine that my workflows are 'special' (or have been in the past) and that I did avoid all these problems because of that, but fact is: It never happened to me. I wish I knew the reason because I feel it would be very helpful for you.
Greetings,
Mike
[Edited at 2017-02-17 18:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You hit it right, Basily! | Feb 24, 2017 |
Your overture is right, Basily.
I USED TO close trados by clicking the save icon (floppy icon) in the top left-hand corner first and then clicking the X button in the top right-hand corner (or simply clicking X, it will ask you if you want to save your work). And this is the Pandora's box! Newly added terms kept evaporating from time to time, though not always.
NOW, I change to close application from dropdown menu File-->Close-->File-->Exit. It works the magic!! The s... See more Your overture is right, Basily.
I USED TO close trados by clicking the save icon (floppy icon) in the top left-hand corner first and then clicking the X button in the top right-hand corner (or simply clicking X, it will ask you if you want to save your work). And this is the Pandora's box! Newly added terms kept evaporating from time to time, though not always.
NOW, I change to close application from dropdown menu File-->Close-->File-->Exit. It works the magic!! The success rate of adding/modifying terms is >97%!! I tested for around 100 times these 3 days, and only on three occasions that my additions or modifications were lost (reason unknown). 97% are well kept.
Conclusion:
It seems that the problem that we've been discussing for long is due to the expedient (?) closing of the application. So my advice so floated is: To play safe, please close Trados in its normal way via the pull-down menu. File closed.
Nicholas Basily wrote:
I've been experiencing this same problem, namely, terminology edited or added to TermBase FROM WITHIN Trados Studio 2014 appear in the list and are usable throughout the current Studio session, but fail to update into TermBase itself (and Studio too) AFTER closing the Studio session. The weird thing noted by other users and myself is that it does NOT ALWAYS happen.
Over the last few weeks I've been keeping a separate record of all the terms I add to TermBase FROM WITHIN Studio 2014, and check after the session to see whether they actually have been added or not. Strangely -- amazingly I'd say -- the new terms seem to update into TermBase (apparently) if and only if:
1. I DON'T open the TermBase application during the session;
2. I close the current project's editing window (pretty obvious) and Close Studio from the File menu - Exit. (I haven't experimented that much, but it appears that closing from the red X button in the top right-hand corner of the application window doesn't achieve this).
3. I wait some time, or even shut down the computer, before opening TermBase and checking.
Following this procedure I don't remember having lost any terms over the last few weeks. Still, I must say it all sounds more covertly supernatural than overtly technical. I also notice there's been no further comment from Paul at SDL Support on this topic since around September 2014.
Will this problem ever be resolved or will it forever remain in the realm of the unexplained?!
All further comments welcome!
Cheers, Nicholas
[Edited at 2016-01-23 15:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Yes, my method DOES work! | Jul 22, 2017 |
I decided to come back to this thread I posted a year and a half ago just out of curiosity, wondering whether anyone had actually hit on a real solution. As aruban posted above, my method (described above and in my post of Jan 2016) DOES work, and I suspect that what Akke Wagenaar discovered may well be the reason. All this past year and a half I have been doing the same I described above, and I have found that loss of words occurs ONLY when:
1. I don't follow the procedure of closi... See more I decided to come back to this thread I posted a year and a half ago just out of curiosity, wondering whether anyone had actually hit on a real solution. As aruban posted above, my method (described above and in my post of Jan 2016) DOES work, and I suspect that what Akke Wagenaar discovered may well be the reason. All this past year and a half I have been doing the same I described above, and I have found that loss of words occurs ONLY when:
1. I don't follow the procedure of closing Trados Studio from the dropdown menu and then WAIT several minutes, I'd say at least 5 minutes (I haven't been able to establish how long exactly, I generally do something else for a while,even read a news item or whatever, before opening MultiTerm to check whether the new terms are there).
2. When Trados crashes, which it does occasionally. In this case, all the new terms are invariably lost -- that is why I keep a separate record of the terms I've just added until I've checked there actually saved in MultiTerm)
Conclusion, so long as Trados Studio closes correctly via the menu AND I wait long enough between closing Studio and opening MultiTerm, the new words are invariably saved. Hence I suspect Akke Wagenaar's discovery is correct and the way to avoid the problem is to do as aruban and I do.
I'll be checking back pronto to see if anyone, Catarina Lopes for example, found this useful. I can't see the name of the person who found Akke Wagenaar's discovery useless, but I recommend him/her to try this method, making sure to wait long enough as explained in #1.
Cheers, N ▲ Collapse
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| Years later, working in Studio 2017 now, still the same problem, SDL didn't do anything about it | Apr 10, 2018 |
Everybody thanks for all the replies and useful tips.
I now work in Studio 2017 and lost already hundreds of terms in a few months.
I.e. terms that I have added, are not there the next day. (Note: the problem of terms not showing up in your Term Recognition window after you added them, can be solved by re-organizing the termbase in Multiterm - however, this has nothing to do with the problem we are dealing with here).
This is why I returned to this forum today an... See more Everybody thanks for all the replies and useful tips.
I now work in Studio 2017 and lost already hundreds of terms in a few months.
I.e. terms that I have added, are not there the next day. (Note: the problem of terms not showing up in your Term Recognition window after you added them, can be solved by re-organizing the termbase in Multiterm - however, this has nothing to do with the problem we are dealing with here).
This is why I returned to this forum today and saw there has a lot been going on here.
I tried out the tip of Nicolas Basily and this really works! All you have to do is NOT close the Editor via the X button but to close the Editor window via the File menu (Close, and Exit). That's it. It doesn't even matter whether you close Studio or not. It's just a programming error in the closing proces of the Editor window.
I'm not even sure anymore whether it's the .ldb file. I noticed that when I close the Editor window via the File menu, the .sdltb file (this is the main termbase file with the contents) gets updated. And when I close via the X, the .sdltb file does not get updated!
So I think this makes it very clear: the programmers of SDL forgot to call the function for updating-saving the .sdltb file when using the Yes button in the confirmation dialog window.
So ... SDL ... Please! This should be so simple to fix! We already pinned down the root cause for you!
Thanks everybody and have a good day
[Edited at 2018-04-11 10:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Pavel Tsvetkov 
Bulgaria
Local time: 01:23
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
MODERATOR
Hi All!
v2014 will soon be obsolete and SDL is pushing hard to market and sell its newest version, so leaving older versions somewhat unreliable may be a company policy. Trados is a complex piece of software and they do not want to stretch their programming resources thin, by their own admission.
Generally speaking, SDL have never been known to quickly patch/update Trados and term management from inside Studio has always been problematic with shortcomings and bugs being... See more Hi All!
v2014 will soon be obsolete and SDL is pushing hard to market and sell its newest version, so leaving older versions somewhat unreliable may be a company policy. Trados is a complex piece of software and they do not want to stretch their programming resources thin, by their own admission.
Generally speaking, SDL have never been known to quickly patch/update Trados and term management from inside Studio has always been problematic with shortcomings and bugs being left to plague linguist experience for years with no solution being offered:
https://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/324512-slow_and_unreliable_new_term_addition_editing_from_inside_trados_studio_v2017.html
Best regards,
Pavel Tsvetkov ▲ Collapse
| | | | Hakan Kiyici
Türkiye
Local time: 02:23
Member (2009)
English to Turkish
+ ...
| Have the same with Multiterm 2015 | Apr 15, 2018 |
I have doubted my self for a minute. Then I saw my recently translated segments and I realized that all of the new terms I entered were gone.
Interestingly this does not happen with TM. Even if Trados crashes, they stay in the TM regardless. But not in Termbase
Guessing there is no solution so far.
| | | | | Did you try following my method?!?! It seems to have worked for several users. | Feb 18, 2019 |
Hakan Kiyici wrote:
I have doubted my self for a minute. Then I saw my recently translated segments and I realized that all of the new terms I entered were gone.
Interestingly this does not happen with TM. Even if Trados crashes, they stay in the TM regardless. But not in Termbase
Guessing there is no solution so far.
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