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Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 10:15
Greek to English
+ ...
"one of us is not afraid to say the truth"
Why would I be afraid... ah, because the translation industry suffers from the "Soviet" complex? Well, here's a true story:
Monday 8.30pm: Project manager calls me at 8.30pm to ask that I go through some "client reviews" of a doc another person translated, because "the client had some issues". He said it was urgent. I could not at the time.
Wednesday 9.30am: Another pm calls me with the same request for the ... See more "one of us is not afraid to say the truth"
Why would I be afraid... ah, because the translation industry suffers from the "Soviet" complex? Well, here's a true story:
Monday 8.30pm: Project manager calls me at 8.30pm to ask that I go through some "client reviews" of a doc another person translated, because "the client had some issues". He said it was urgent. I could not at the time.
Wednesday 9.30am: Another pm calls me with the same request for the same document. I went through the document. I replied to her "there's nothing wrong with the translation - the last editor is playing with synonyms."
Thursday around 5pm: They said that they hired a fourth (4th) editor who said that there were more errors. I checked them quickly. No errors. Another subjective opinion.
Friday morning: A colleague calls me, tells me if I knew about this project, because she was the translator and they' re asking for their money back.
Friday afternoon: I sent an email to the project manager asking her "did any of those editors sent you any explanation, scientific and linguistic, to prove that there were errors?". She responded "No".
Two weeks later and after tons of money had been thrown out the window for no reason at all: It was revealed that the client did not have any problem with the translation. The editor who caused the whole mess (by finding imaginary errors) was hired by the project manager to ensure that everything was ok. However, by saying to the translator (and to me) that "the client had issues", he lied.
Lying to people has become the "norm" in this industry. "Lie and keep your mouth shut".
And let the translator take a penalty for errors she didn't make, because someone else made errors!
I worked as a rep in the financial industry in three countries, and it was a lot more clean and fair and transparent than that. Unfortunately, due to the anonimity, the bogus editings, the internal workings of the price wars, and the lies without any serious reason (these are not that many - although some agencies have made them standard practice in certain operations - simply lying to people), this industry is close to the bottom on the ethics scale.
So we have:
a) Anonymous editors and proofreaders who can say whatever they want without proving it.
b) Tight deadlines and unpredictable schedules.
c) Colleagues (and agencies) using Google translate and somehow we'll also get involved... or they involve us without our knowledge sometimes.
d) No association or any other vehicle to support our interests
e) No insurance other than a very expensive government fund (in the US, only private for us)
f) High taxation even if we use public utilities and services less than anyone esle (we work from home)
g) No "social capital" - we do not meet anyone who can be a leverage for a different career - absolute loneliness and isolation in this business. And it's actually required in most cases, to be able to concentrate. Many people have left this industry to go "work in any office where there are people aroung and company events with cheap cake".
h) No proof of our work anywhere - we do not have intellectual property rights. We work hard yet we do not exist - we can't prove that we ever worked. Free lance paychecks are not a proof of anything significant.
i) No chance of maintaining a healthy relationship if we are the main breadwinners. If we only work part time and shut the computer off at a certain time, then it's ok.
j) We must finish a project in the agreed time, regardless of difficulties that may arise during the project which were unforseen. If a health issue arises, forget it.
k) No more extra charge for weekend and/or holiday work. Plumbers, lawyers, electrticians, are free lancers too, they charge 50% more on weekends. So are the DTP salaried employees you' re using.
should I continue? Isn't it true that you all try to adjust the translator's work in such time frame so that you won't have to pay the DTP people overtime? Because you know that the translator will not charge you overtime even if it's Christmas night.
At the end, the only compensation in return for all the above mess, was a nice paycheck. Not anymore. The "market forces" you' re claiming, shifted toward lower prices because the agencies started competing with each other. Translators were just accepting what the agencies were throwing at them, and they' re not responsible for the mess in prices, from which we all take losses, both you and us.
Finally, the Agency and the Translator are on the Same Side of the River. They are not on opposite sides. They can't live without each other. The notion and general impression that the translator is your "enemy" is plainly wrong. Without the translator you can't generate one penny (if machines take over, clients will go to the machines directly).
The translators should quit trying to make their colleagues look bad through unethical practices, and the agencies should stop behaving as if they are "The Biggest Organization in the World, and we'll treat you as if you are a little ant." They' re not even in the "top 500". A little humility and friendliness from both sides will go a long way.
Thankfully, all of the agencies with which I work now understand this and they are nice and highly ethical people. But it took me so many years to get to this point - and I was lucky. Once in a while we will have to deal with the so-called "professionals" (oh boy! what a high school cliche this "professionalism"). What they mean by that, is that they are too young and inexperienced and they think that professionalism has something to do with "Robots" - because they have seen it in movies. Or that it has to do with silence. It doesn't.
Thank you and best regards
PS1. Isn't it a very large agency that has adopted the practice of "cloud translating" and people just login and translate a few phrases here and there and so on? And they ask you to actually pay a monthly fee to participate? Plenty of articles written here... how is that different from Google translate? Translators didn't start this, that agency started it.
PS2. If you have a problem with 1-2% of your translators, you' re in good shape. Anything that is bad to a degree from 0-5% in this market is just "an annoyance within the regular course of business". Considering actually that the vast majority of translators are actually part timers, you' re in pretty good shape. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X) 
France
Local time: 17:15
French to German
+ ...
René Stranz-Nikitin wrote:
Ramon Inglada wrote:
The above post by Eleftherios is one of the best I have ever read here in Proz. I fully agree with him, but I wouldn't have been able to express it so well.
Thanks a lot Eleftherios.
Exactly, I would like to thank Eleftherios as well for his posting. It was very satisfying to read and to feel that one of us is not afraid to say the truth.
Thanks so much!
René Stranz-Nikitin
| | | | | Same here. I just stopped to offer editing and proofreading entirely long ago. | Sep 6, 2011 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
Thankfully, all of the agencies with which I work now understand this and they are nice and highly ethical people. But it took me so many years to get to this point - and I was lucky.
This is exactly the point where I arrived as well. It took me over 12 years to build my current base of good clients. And more than half of the new contacts I have to chase away after finding out that they are cheapsters.
Last week I replied to a job offer from a German agency. Instead of my per word rate they offered me the proofreading for 0.02 EUR per word. It was a difficult specialized agricultural text. I got quite angry and wrote to them what I am thinking about them. I feel a moral duty in front of my good regular clients to fight the cheapsters.
And to get back on topic (sorry): I don't offer proofreading and editing anymore since long ago and MT is only one more reason not to offer it. I am aware of the fact, that this makes my service portfolio smaller and less interesting, but I don't want do deal with what proofreading and editing are often used and abused for. Quality translations don't need much editing, that's my point of view.
Have a nice day all!
René Stranz-Nikitin
www.uersn.de
| | | | | Apocalyptic view... | Sep 6, 2011 |
come on, Eleftherios, as you said, you only need to find the right people to work for (with). I never experienced anything you say. It's down to your own business intelligence to do that. Those who work in these conditions is, as far as I'm concerned, an idiot or very naïve. My only gripe is the tight deadlines, but agencies want to please their customers all the time in fear they might lose them. But I usually say: there is not enough time to deliver a good quality translation. That very often... See more come on, Eleftherios, as you said, you only need to find the right people to work for (with). I never experienced anything you say. It's down to your own business intelligence to do that. Those who work in these conditions is, as far as I'm concerned, an idiot or very naïve. My only gripe is the tight deadlines, but agencies want to please their customers all the time in fear they might lose them. But I usually say: there is not enough time to deliver a good quality translation. That very often scares them... Good agencies who don't take shortcuts or are very reasonable do exist. As I said before, you will eventually find them or they will find you. And if they do, then it's up to you to become indispensable to them.
[Edited at 2011-09-06 14:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Malicious editing has become the norm | Sep 6, 2011 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
I knew this translator in Greece, for me he's still the "Absolute Guru" in Greek translations. Simple perfection. He's not in this business anymore, quit 4 years ago. His reasons? "Can't really give time to a text with these kind of prices", "malicious editing has become the norm", "unexplained and undocumented editing exists only in this industry", "this anonimity is unique - in no other industry the members of a team do not know each other, are they trying to hide something?" etc, etc...
Not to mention lack of business sense. Do you know how many PMs prefer to employ cheap translators, thinking that "additional editors will solve this problem".
(Let's make a low quality airplane, and additional duct tape will solve the problem)
Thank you Eleftherios for such an accurate description of the current state of the translation industry. The concept of "professional ethics" is gone.
[Edited at 2011-09-06 18:40 GMT]
| | | | | Eleftherios, people tend to justify their work. | Oct 1, 2011 |
Eleftherios, I just *LOVED* your posts. I can only applaud. But regarding the last one I have something to add:
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
Thursday around 5pm: They said that they hired a fourth (4th) editor who said that there were more errors. I checked them quickly. No errors. Another subjective opinion.
A problem that occurs EVERYWHERE (not only in translation) is that if you hire somebody to find errors, they WILL find errors, even if they are none, just to justify their salary.
I recall that when working at an aerospace company we got a *very* important air force raising hell about all the shit we were doing and requesting to redo the whole work (which would have cost hundreds of millions and delayed the work for months). Simple typos and small errors apparently justified it because this was "extremely serious". We took a long breath and asked them to verify the so-called "serious problems" with an independent company. They did, and came back admitting that it wasn't that serious after all. But their consultants had to justify their huge salaries.
Same with reviewers - very often a reviewer simply changes words, or the sentence to say exactly the same thing because otherwise the agency will not believe they had done a good job. The agency you mention should have cross-checked by sending the SECOND reviewer the ORIGINAL text, not the revised text, and then checking whether there were coincidences on the edited text. Going as far as hiring four editors... those guys are plain stupid!
| | | | Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 17:15
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
| Brilliant posts, Eleftherios | Oct 2, 2011 |
Thank you.
Attila
| | | | | Thank you, Eleftherios! | Oct 3, 2011 |
Ramon Inglada wrote:
The above post by Eleftherios is one of the best I have ever read here in Proz. I fully agree with him, but I wouldn't have been able to express it so well.
Thanks a lot Eleftherios.
I totally agree with Ramon's comments. I really thank Eleftherios for writing such a wonderful post.
Regards,
Fernando
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