Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

кавказец

English translation:

man from the Caucasus

Added to glossary by Robert Donahue (X)
Apr 29, 2005 14:22
19 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Russian term

кавказец

Russian to English Art/Literary Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
В смысле выходца с Кавказа. Как это перевести, чтобы не путалось с Caucasian в смысле просто европейца?
Контекстная фраза:
скинхеды с особой жестокостью избивали кавказцев


Кстати, затрудняюсь в классификации этого вопроса, если будут идеи, куда его отнести - действуйте! И заранее спасибо!
Change log

Apr 29, 2005 17:45: Kirill Semenov changed "Field" from "Social Sciences" to "Art/Literary" , "Field (specific)" from "Other" to "Anthropology"

Apr 29, 2005 20:31: Natalie changed "Field (specific)" from "Anthropology" to "Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc."

Discussion

Levan Namoradze Apr 30, 2005:
������, :-) � ���� �����, � ���� � ���� ������ "����� ��������".
Larissa Dinsley Apr 30, 2005:
�����, ��� �� ������ native? ��� ������� ������� ����� � �������, ���� � �������.
Mikhail Kropotov Apr 29, 2005:
NB: ����������� ���� �� � ���� �� � ������. �������� ����� ���, �� � �� �� �����, � ���������.
�� ������ ���� ������� ��� �� �������.
Levan Namoradze Apr 29, 2005:
�������� �����. :-) � �� �� ������� "���������� ���"? � ������ "Caucasians", ��� ��, ��� ��� �����.
Non-ProZ.com Apr 29, 2005:
�����, ��� � ��� ��� � �������: ������ ��� "��������" - ��� ��� �� ����� ��-���������-��? :-)))
Levan Namoradze Apr 29, 2005:
������ ��� �� ����� � ������� "���" (�� � �� �� ����! ;-) ). ������������, ������ �� ����������������, � ������ "������". �� �, ���������� ������ ��� "��������".
Levan Namoradze Apr 29, 2005:
�������! :-) ���� ������, �� ������� ����� �� ����� ������� ������� ���� �� ������������! ���� "�����"... (������ ��� �������) :-) ������, "�� ������������" ������� ��� ������ "���� �������" ����-����������� ���. ��, ���� �� ���������,
Kirill Semenov Apr 29, 2005:
Anthropology! :) � �� ������� � ����������������: Art/Lit, ���� �����. ;-)
Vladimir Dubisskiy Apr 29, 2005:
"������"

Proposed translations

+9
5 mins
Russian term (edited): �������
Selected

man from the Caucasus

I am not sure if there is a single word that conveys this Natalie. Best of luck!

... An agile young man from the Caucasus has wrapped his knee around an enchanting ... The man from the Caucasus slides on the soles of his pointed shoes, ...
... Once there was a party at my girl-friend's house who recently got married to a man from the Caucasus. He was bright but hot tempered and patriarchally ...
... Just days after Kurshida's murder, a man from the Caucasus was beaten to death in a St. Petersburg railway station. In the same month, a Jewish cemetery ...
... follows the fortunes of Merlin Prester Beg, a young and inquisitive man from the Caucasus, as he explores what he calls the 'great mystery of the West'. ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs 49 mins (2005-04-29 21:12:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Levan, you are both right and wrong. YOU understand the term perfectly well. The point is how to translate кавказец so that it\'s understood by all. The meaning of the word \"Caucasian\" is too easily confused. White people in the US put \"Caucasian\" down as their race. Reading this sentence, the average white guy in Mud Lick, Alabama is going to scratch his head in wonder over why skinheads are attacking white people. The point here is not точность а понятность.
Peer comment(s):

agree Mihailolja
13 mins
Thank you Mihailolja
agree Marina Davidenko
24 mins
Thank you Marina
agree Inna Sabia
2 hrs
Thank you Inna
agree Svetlana Chekunova
3 hrs
Thank you Svetlana
agree Angeliki Kotsidou (X)
4 hrs
Thank you Angeliki
neutral Levan Namoradze : Caucasian+Robert, I see. However, in 'your' meaning the 'Caucasian Race' is used. And 'simply' 'Caucasian' means right 'кавказец'.
5 hrs
Not enough room to comment here. Please see my posted response.
agree Anneta Vysotskaya
5 hrs
Thank you Anneta
agree Dorene Cornwell
10 hrs
Thank you Dorene
agree Larissa Dinsley
19 hrs
Thank you Larissa
agree sergey (X)
1 day 23 mins
Thank you Sergey
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everybody who participated in the discussion! I choosed not to add any words absent in the original (I mean the word "ethnic"). Документ сам по себе написан очень простым языком (и изобилует орфографическими ошибками), это заявление человека о предоставлении политического убежища в США (с достаточно подробным изложением причин этого обращения). Так что Роберт совершенно прав: все должно быть предельно понятно для тех, кто будет это заявление читать. Еще раз огромное спасибо всем! "
+2
3 mins
Russian term (edited): �������

people from Caucasis

I guess
Peer comment(s):

agree Sara Noss : from the Caucasus
3 mins
Точно. Зарапортовалась. Спасибо!
neutral Levan Namoradze : Caucasian
5 hrs
agree Larissa Dinsley
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
3 mins
Russian term (edited): �������

a man from the Caucasian region

I think

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2005-04-29 14:27:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In your text > people from the Caucasian region/of the Caucasian origin

Peer comment(s):

agree Robert Donahue (X)
1 hr
Thanks!
agree Angeliki Kotsidou (X)
4 hrs
Thanks!
neutral Levan Namoradze : Caucasian
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-2
6 mins
Russian term (edited): �������

"mountain people"

"mountain people" (from the Caucasus - по желанию)
Peer comment(s):

agree Kirill Semenov : heh, "a highlander" ;-)
3 hrs
Мне кажется, это здесь главнее. Дать понять, как к нам относятся в реальном сегодняшнем обществе, а не как мы классифицированы в книжке по антропологии.
neutral Levan Namoradze : Миша, нет, просто "кавказцев" без разбору, как водится... Caucasian
5 hrs
Кхм, я не понял мысли. С радостью соглашусь, если пойму.
disagree R. E. M : What "The Caucasus" is, is a large region between the Black and the Caspian sea. There certainly is a mnt. range there, but there is no compelling evidence that someone they beat up was specifically from that mnt. range in Caucasia.
9 hrs
Thanx. Okay, but that is not relevant to the way the expression might be perceived by the readers. See Dorene's comment. And btw, I'm of Caucasian origin - I am aware of the geography and some of the history :)
disagree Dorene Cornwell : all kinds of wrong connotations and possible misunderstandings of this in Englsih
10 hrs
Okay, thank you.
disagree sergey (X) : agree with dorene, besides some areas there are not that mountainous anyway
1 day 6 mins
Yes, this is too slangy. Thanks Sergey
Something went wrong...
+3
8 mins
Russian term (edited): �������

people of the Caucusus region

;-)
Peer comment(s):

agree Sara Noss : also good, but 'Caucasus'. :)
4 mins
Oops, keyboard slipped! thanks......
agree Angeliki Kotsidou (X)
4 hrs
Efharisto Angeliki
neutral Levan Namoradze : Caucasian
5 hrs
ah! keyboard!
agree Mrs Shell : I agree but word was misspelled "Caucasus", as was mentioned above.
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
+3
25 mins

Caucasian

It's the same word, and it will be clear from context that one is not talking about "white people".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-29 14:51:41 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/Russia3.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~jimmasters3/geographical-dictiona...
Peer comment(s):

neutral Robert Donahue (X) : I don't know Gary. This really depends on the audience being written for don't you agree? If it were for the people responding here today then of course there would be no need for further clarification. However, if you're writing for a general audience...
1 hr
But I don't see how one could confuse this with the racial category given any context
agree Levan Namoradze : No Robert. This is not from Anthropology, since skinheads do not use fight with a 'white man' i.e. a 'caucasian' i.e a Indo-European. They just fight with Caucasians i.e. men from Caucasus.
5 hrs
agree Kirill Semenov
5 hrs
agree Shane London
8 hrs
neutral sergey (X) : rather confusing
23 hrs
Something went wrong...
+5
37 mins

Caucasus ethnic persons

TAKAS - English
... a «Caucasus ethnic person» sitting in front of him, what’s more, it was a
Muslim who just came «from down there». From the world that he never ...
www.takas.lt/english/forum/ viewtopic.php?topic=122&forum=6&12 - 48k - Cached - Similar pages

::KAVKAZ CENTER::news::facts::analysis
... But there was a face of a «Caucasus ethnic person» sitting in front of him,
what’s more, it was a Muslim who just came «from down there». ...
www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/article.php?id=2075 - 42k - Supplemental Result


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-29 15:41:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

How about \"Caucasus natives\"? Some good references here:

Welcome to Ccharm >> Helping the children of Chechnya
... it be in film, books or the theater -- and Caucasus natives today fit this
... thought all Caucasus natives were artistic, charming and sexy and from ...
www.ccharm.org/news/article54.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Review of Tombstone of Russian Power
... early eighteenth century the Cossacks there were still independent and probably
numbered less than the North Caucasus natives in Russian service there. ...
www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/reviewsw21.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] The experience of international community at the outset of a new ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... Caucasian cultural societies joined by descendants of the North Caucasus
natives eager to. preserve their cultural distinctions (as was the case at the ...
www.da.mod.uk/CSRC/documents/CEE/ G93%20(Security%20in%20the%20Black%20Sea%20Region/G93.chap2 - Similar pages

Institute for War and Peace Reporting
... Already Russia has seen an upsurge in skinhead violence, often directed against
Caucasus natives, in recent months. Two Azerbaijanis are reported to ...
www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/ cau/cau_200210_153_4_eng.txt - 64k -


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-30 01:46:28 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Наталия, ну и бурю Вы подняли!

Я бы хотела добавить несколько замечаний на комментарии коллег к моему ответу:
I deliberately used \"Caucaus ethnic\" vs \"ethnic Caucaisan\" as I have found that the latter is used in the same context as \"Caucasian\", eg.www.gcte.net/Join/join1.htm
Therefore, I thought it would be more clear to stick to word \"Caucasus\".

Aslo, I would prefer - in your context (as it is obviously not an anthropology :) piece but a popular article - to use to \"Caucasus natives\") because the use of Caucasus vs Caucasian excludes a possible misunderstanding and the word \"native\" is fairly widely used in this context not making it sound too scientific.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-30 09:55:42 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Наталия, вот мне все неймется и захотелось обратиться к первоисточникам - заглянула я в свой Оксфордский словарь и увидела, что как существительное слово Caucasian употребляется ТОЛЬКО в значении человек Caucasian race. Так что испльзование Caucasian как существительного в вашем тексте сразу отпадает. Как прилагательное, только третье значение дается как \"3) relating to the region of the Caucasus in SE Europe\". В зависимости от вашей аудитории, может быть не верно понято, поэтому я бы на Вашем месте воздержалась от его использования.

Чисто интуитивно мне не нравилось и мое предоложение насчет \"Caucausus ethnic\" а почему прояснилось когда наткнулась на эту ссылку:

\"Кавказец\" - все больше становится идентичностью, нагруженной не этническим или культурным, но ПОЛИТИЧЕСКИМ содержанием...\" http://www.inci.ru/vestniki/vest07.html

Это как евреев в бывшем Союзе считали национальностью. В общем, оттуда ноги растут.

Native м.б. неплохое решение (по аналогии с native American), но в английском звучит несколько архаично.

People (men) from Caucasus, предложенное коллегами выше, тоже ложится в контекст хотя, конечно, и не передает всех нюансов (эти люди могут быть москвичами, а человек с Кавказа может быть и русским, по большому счету), но может быть наилучшим выходом из Вашей ситуации.

Кстати, мне почему-то кажется, что имеются в виду \"people from North Caucasus\"?

Ну вот, а теперь пойду к своим баранам, то есть рукояткам и джойстикам - будь они неладны!

Peer comment(s):

agree Robert Donahue (X) : Or as Jack suggested, "ethnic Caucasian".
54 mins
Thank you Robert. I was thinking about it, discovered that in some references "ethnic Caucaisan" is used in the same context as Caucasian, eg.www.gcte.net/Join/join1.htm Therefore, I think it would be more clear to stick to word "Caucasus".
agree Konstantin Kisin : with Robert especially
59 mins
Thank you Konstantin, see my comments above.
agree Vladimir Dubisskiy : ethnic Caucasians
1 hr
Thank you Vladimir.
agree Drunya : С предыдущими соглашателями
1 hr
Thank you Drunya.
agree Sergei Tumanov
2 hrs
Thank you Sergei.
agree Svetlana Chekunova
2 hrs
Thank you Svetlana.
agree Blithe : ethnic Caucasians
3 hrs
Thank you Blithe.
disagree Levan Namoradze : Нет такой этнической группы в природе. Caucasian правильный ответ.
4 hrs
Thank you Levan. I did not say "group".
disagree R. E. M : there is no such specific ethnicity.
9 hrs
Thank you Russ, I did not say "specific".
Something went wrong...
+7
1 hr

I don't think the use of Caucasians would be too confusing.

Examples where there is no confusion (assuming the readers of your translations have neurons in their cranium)
Gangs
... Some consist of African-Americans, Latinos, Skinheads, Caucasians, and Asians.
Some are mixed. A lot of the gangs I've heard about and are friends with, ...
allfreeessays.com/student/Gangs.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages

Russian skinheads lose massive fight to Asian men in Moscow metro
... There are up to 50 thousand skinheads in Russia, which is equal to their ...
the Caucasians pulled out knives and used them for their own defense. ...
www.rickross.com/reference/skinheads/skinheads50.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

Digital Termpapers: Term Papers on Gangs
... There are many different kind of gangs around: African-Americans, Latinos,
Skinheads, Caucasians, and Asians. Some are mixed. ...
www.digitaltermpapers.com/c542.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

Stormfront White Nationalist Community
... of skinheads partook in a racially motivated attack on "ethnic Caucasians".
... "ethnic Caucasians" be white people and if so why would skinheads attack ...
www.stormfront.org/archive/ t-180458Some_clarification_required..html -

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-29 15:43:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perhaps \"ethnic Caucasians\" would dispell any doubt about the use of the word
Peer comment(s):

agree Irene N : The last option is great., clearly the best. IMHO.
9 mins
Thanks - yes, the last is less ambiguous
agree Robert Donahue (X) : I'd agree wholeheartedly with "ethnic Caucasians". Please refer to my note to Gary for my thinking on the use of "Caucasian" as a stand alone word.
13 mins
Thanks, and I agree with your view (regarding note to Gary)
agree Kirill Semenov : "ethnic Caucasians" is great
2 hrs
Thanks Kirill
agree Konstantin Kisin : with ethnic Caucasians
2 hrs
Thanks KK!!
agree Blithe : ethnic Caucasians
2 hrs
Blithe, thank you
agree Andrey Belousov (X)
3 hrs
Thanks Andrey!
neutral Levan Namoradze : Great. Both in terms of Anthropology and 'life'. However, Gary answered earlier...+There exists no specific 'Caucasus Ethnic'. I agreed only with 'Caucasian'.
4 hrs
Ethnic is used to distinguish peoples of the Caucasus from members of the white race
agree Marina Khonina : "ethnic Caucasians". I don't see a problem with "ethnic" here since this is apparently not a scholarly text
1 day 4 hrs
Thank you, Marina!
Something went wrong...
+2
1 hr
Russian term (edited): �������

transcaucasians

Caucasian точно будет воспиринято как "белый"(представитель европеоидной рассы), что(мягко говоря) почти противоположно контексту. Поскольку под "лицами кавказской национальности" подразумеваются исключительно закавказцы, а не жители Ставрополья, Краснодарского края, и т.д. предлагаю сконцентрироваться в этом направлении.

Ethnobarometer Working Paper 2 - Part B
... of immigrants of other nationalities (especially Transcaucasians), ...
borders who have approached the office of the UNHCR in Moscow for assistance, ...
www.cemes.org/current/ethpub/ethnobar/wp2/wp2-b.htm
Peer comment(s):

agree Andrey Belousov (X) : nice approach
3 hrs
neutral Levan Namoradze : Не совсем, так как мы не знаем, были ли они с Закавказья, или и северного Кавказа.+Никак нет. :-) 'Caucasian Race' да, но не 'Caucasian'.
4 hrs
Леван, безусловно так... Но тут такое нелепое совпадение, что по-английски Caucasian означает представителя европеоидной рассы (белого) без подразделений на регионы. А скинхеды-то как раз это разделение и производят...
agree Vladimir Glushkov : Судя по замечательной статье-ссылке, да.
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
9 hrs
Russian term (edited): �������

People from Caucasia

simply "caucasian" is perfectly valid though it could indeed be confusing and one may assume it to be anyone of the "white" race. Since they clearly do not mean Scandinavians or Spanish, etc. here, it is best to use a word for specific geogr. location "Caucasia". The self-explanatory term "caucasian", however, which the world uses to describe the white race, is an entirely different subject
Peer comment(s):

disagree Levan Namoradze : :-) No, it can not. 'Caucasian Race' & 'Caucasian' are pretty different.
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search