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Sachübernahmen
Schrägbürste
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Feb 12, 2009 22:40
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

gegen das Vieh entbrennen

May offend German to English Other Poetry & Literature
From an autobiography (1873): "Was sind das fuer Fruechte ("ein guter Baum kann nicht boese Fruechte bringen"), wenn, wie es in jener Gemeinde vorkam, der eine Selbstmord begeht, ein anderer seine eigenen Tochter schaendet, ein dritter gegen das Vieh entbrennt ..."

- "...a third turns on his cattle?"
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 inflamed/aroused by cattle
3 despoils/violates his livestock
References
Maybe this will help
Change log

Feb 13, 2009 00:48: Johanna Timm, PhD changed "May Offend" from "Not Checked" to "Checked"

Discussion

Helen Shiner Feb 18, 2009:
lmulter - please let us know how you resolved this. After all the help that was offered to you, to just close without comment or thanks, is not really in the spirit of Kudoz!
hazmatgerman (X) Feb 16, 2009:
gegen - 2 With Timm reasoning. "gegen" to me indicates an exit for rage/anger/hate similar to the first and second items in source text. Might be clarified with research on "entbrennt".
Helen Shiner Feb 13, 2009:
In my experience prepositions such as 'gegen' can be used during this period to denote a criminal act, i.e. that some crime had been committed. I also find Bernhard 'gegen' as in 'gegenüber' familiar from texts of this date. I am not sure that whipping one's cattle would get mentioned as a vice particularly. Though the reference may be to a particular act of cutting, for instance.
Johanna Timm, PhD Feb 12, 2009:
gegen “Gegen etwas entbrennen” describes an act of scorn or hate committed *against* sth.
While we are certainly dealing with a form of physical abuse here, I think “gegen” points more into the direction of an unwarranted beating, flogging, whipping of (domestic) animals, i.e. the “vice” described here would be uncontrolled rage and anger. If sodomy was involved, I would expect an obsolete/biblical expression such as “beiwohnen.”
Helen Shiner Feb 12, 2009:
As Andrew suggests, can this be retrospectively amended to include a warning about its potential offensive nature?
Bernhard Sulzer Feb 12, 2009:
"A third one is turning/turns on/against his cattle" is probably the right way to describe such action. Agree with Helen's evaluation.
Helen Shiner Feb 12, 2009:
Something along the lines of 'becoming inflamed by cattle' - such cases are very frequently mentioned in the medical examiner reports I translate on sexual aberrations of the period.
Helen Shiner Feb 12, 2009:
to do with, or rather may have to do with supposed and/or actual acts of bestiality.
Helen Shiner Feb 12, 2009:
I have done quite some research into notions of degeneracy - a hot topic in 1873 - and have translated quite a few texts on perceived notions of moral and sexual decline in the late 19th century. Maybe my mind has become twisted, but I would say this has
Kim Metzger Feb 12, 2009:
Why are you leaving out the rest of the sentence?

Proposed translations

11 hrs

despoils/violates his livestock

trying to keep with the archaic style of language here
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

inflamed/aroused by cattle

Maybe someone can think of better wording.

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Note added at 13 hrs (2009-02-13 12:39:40 GMT)
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If you chose to rewrite the emphasis of the phrase in the way Paul suggests, I have found the use of the term 'to defile', as in 'defiler of youths/cattle' comes up very often, and in German 'mißbrauchen' is frequently employed.

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Note added at 3 days11 hrs (2009-02-16 10:16:53 GMT)
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Perhaps you could say something like 'lustfully abuses' his animals - an attempt to bring the misusing and the element of lust together. or 'venally misuses'.
Peer comment(s):
agree Lancashireman : Helen, I think you must count as a world authority on this subject.
15 hrs
Thanks, Andrew - a somewhat dubious accolade, but in reality, I just translate for a world authority on the subject!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

31 mins
Reference:

Maybe this will help

Ich, mit rächender Flamme, habe sein Haus in Asche gelegt. Erschreckt flieht jener von dannen, und als er das schweigende Feld erreicht, heult er umher und versucht vergeblich zu reden. Mit Wut im Maul wird er in der Gier des gewohnten Mordes gegen das Vieh gekehrt und freut sich auch jetzt noch des Bluts; zu Haaren werden die Kleider, zu Schenkeln die Arme; er wird Wolf und bewahrt die Merkmale der alten Gestalt.«
Von ähnlicher Schwere der verübten Greuel ist die Geschichte der Prokne, die in eine Schwalbe verwandelt wurde. Als nämlich Prokne den Tereus, ihren Gemahl, bittet (Metamorphosen, VI, v. 440-676), wenn sie irgend bei ihm in Gunst stehe, möge er sie fortsenden, ihre Schwester zu sehen, oder die Schwester möge zu ihr kommen, beeilt sich Tereus, die Schiffe ins Meer ziehen zu lassen, und schnell mit Segel und Ruder erreicht er die Gestade des Piräus. Kaum aber erblickt er die Philomela, als er schon in sträflicher Liebe zu ihr entbrennt.
http://www.textlog.de/5965.html

Admittedly it has someone turning against cattle in another way, but it does juxtapose 'illegal' love and the term 'entbrennen'.

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Note added at 36 mins (2009-02-12 23:16:45 GMT)
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I do note that your example has 'entbrennen gegen' whilst mine has 'entbrennen zu'. Perhaps a native speaker will tell us what this might signify in terms of meaning.

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Note added at 43 mins (2009-02-12 23:24:03 GMT)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degeneration
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Lancashireman : Interesting research. There may be a case for having one of those 'may be found offensive' warning messages before accessing this question...
19 mins
I agree - can that be done retrospectively?
agree Bernhard Sulzer : in Liebe entbrennen für/gegenüber jemandem (inflamed with love for someone) - love is certainly not involved here: gegen(über)Vieh/Vieh entgegen: "getting/becoming hot for/getting the hots for" would be more like it here. Crazy bas....
23 mins
Thanks, Bernhard - I think 'inflamed' should cover it. Poor cattle.
agree Kitty Maerz : would have been my interpretation too
18 hrs
Thank you, Kitty
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