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Zuzählung
Aug 10, 2014 09:00
9 yrs ago
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German term

zeitversetzt einbezogen

German to English Bus/Financial Finance (general)
Der Abschlussstichtag für alle vollkonsolidierten Unternehmen ist der 31.3.2014. Eine Ausnahme bilden die beiden rumänischen Gesellschaften, die zeitversetzt einbezogen werden, da deren Geschäftsjahr am 31.12. endet.

The balance sheet date for all fully consolidated companies is 31 March 2014, with the exception of the two Romanian companies, which are included X as their business year ends on 31 December.

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So they're being included at a later date because their business years end at a different time, but I can't find a good expression in English for this.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 included asynchronously
4 +1 later included
3 +1 as at/as of a different / an earlier date
3 leave "zeitversetzt" blank
3 are included on an adjusted basis….
5 -4 time-delayed included
References
zeitversetzt explained

Discussion

Björn Vrooman Aug 17, 2014:
@uyuni Where I have to stand corrected: I've come to think of the 31 December as actually being part of a general procedure statement. "werden" as in "die [jedes Mal] zeitversetzt einbezogen werden" can be used in that way (as an instruction).
Björn Vrooman Aug 17, 2014:
@gangels and uyuni @uyuni That's what I was about to write...You added that less than hour after you posted your original answer.

@gangels Including something "in a sequence one after another" is not the same as "zeitversetzt" - one refers to a How and incidentally to a When, the other refers strictly to a When.

On a side note: I think I explained well enough how zeitversetzt is used, which is two events happening at the same time, with the actual response created by the second event having a later impact (or an earlier one, if you want to include uyuni's definition). The sentence should read: "Abschlussstichtag ist...Gesellschaften, die zu diesem späteren Zeitpunkt [der jetzige] ebenfalls einbezogen werden."

Adding "will be" here as in "with the exception of the two Romanian companies, which will be included sequentially as their business year ends on 31 December" messes up the entire sentence because it points to the companies being included later than this year's balance sheet date - which they are not. That would make no sense in reference to the three-month rule.

Otherwise, I'd expect "die zeitversetzt einbezogen wurden/worden sind", not "sind" alone.
uyuni Aug 17, 2014:
Hi gangels, THX for confirming.
"Sequentially"...?
Please see the note I added to my answer more than a week ago.
gangels (X) Aug 17, 2014:
Sequential=zeitversetzt; concomitant=zeitgleich.

Note: The German reads …ausser den zwei rumänischen Gesellschaften die zeitversetzt einbezogen WERDEN (instead of 'sind')… (in the future)

so the translation correctly read correctly "…companies the results of which WILL BE sequentially included…"
Björn Vrooman Aug 17, 2014:
@gangels You mean sequential approach in contrast to the simultaneous one?

Just thought about it. Sequential growth, sequential performance, etc.: yes, of course. Sequential preparation of financial statements - first the subsidiary, then the parent company: yes.

But "included sequentially" when they are included at the same date, just for a different period? Also, how would it work with "zeitversetzt einbezogen" if the subsidiaries, say, were included as of May and not as of December (IFRS-wise possible)?
gangels (X) Aug 17, 2014:
The word is…. "sequentially". Come across it all the time when company earnings are discussed on financial TV. The dime finally dropped.
Björn Vrooman Aug 16, 2014:
@RobinB Finally had some time to add some references and an answer. I'd really appreciate your feedback. Thank you!
Björn Vrooman Aug 11, 2014:
@Cilian Yes, the second starts later than the first. Of course, the first also starts earlier than the second. But that's the (logical) order of things. It does not invalidate my statement of "zeitversetzt" most likely being used in combination with the second list item (der Erste startet, der Zweite startet zeitversetzt). You could also say: Sie starten hintereinander.

In addition, as I said below, it all comes down to whether "zeitversetzt" in this particular instance is being used to describe something that happens earlier or later. If business regulations only allow one possibility (either earlier or later), then you'll not only confuse readers by trying to incorporate both meanings, you'll most likely show them that you don't know what you're talking about.
Cilian O'Tuama Aug 11, 2014:
Skifahren/Radfahren Beim Zeitfahren wird oft "zeitversetzt" gestartet. Sonst ist es ein Massenstart.
Just an example of how the word can be used.
Björn Vrooman Aug 11, 2014:
@uyuni Yes, I can think of one example: zeitversetzte Aufnahme, where the recording is made earlier than the broadcast - but then again, the recording is made to watch it later. You probably wouldn't say you're making a zeitversetzte Aufnahme for a zeitversetzte Ausstrahlung - that sounds really odd. You need to agree on what is point A (first action) and point B (second action), as in lightning (first) and thunder (second) or in recording (first) and broadcast (second). Trying to point to recording A (first) and broadcast B (second) by referring to A being zeitversetzt to B is possible, but simply depends on what is the logical thing to follow A (that is: B).

The same in this case here: If you know what is included (up to a date) for what period (financial year), you don't need guesswork. There are rules for how to create such financial documents and what to include in it. They certainly will not point either way but only in one direction (forward or backward).
Björn Vrooman Aug 11, 2014:
@RobinB I know how confusing German can be at times (even for Germans). And yes, I read your profile, so I'd like to ask you the following:

My take on it is that the Romanian companies are included on March 31, 2014 with their entire financial year until December 31, 2013. This means three months that should have been included in the last statement last year (2013) are now being included in 2014, while you're missing out on the three months in 2014 this time, just for these two companies. Does this make sense to you?
RobinB Aug 11, 2014:
@Björn What you've written is somewhat complicated, but I should point out that I'm more than familiar with the concept of "zeitversetzte Vereinnahmung" of subsidiaries' dividends.
However, I do suspect that the term is being used loosely and somewhat inaccurately here, and that all it means in practice is that "... with the exception of the two Romanian companies, which are included as at a different reporting date (or: balance sheet date) as they have a 31 December financial year-end."
One of the great challenges of translating German financial reports (which I've been doing for more than a couple of decades now) is to reduce complexity while at the same time ensuring (or even enhancing) transparency, comprehensibility and comparability in the interests of decision-usefulness. However, it is possible to learn certain strategies and techniques for accomplishing this.
Björn Vrooman Aug 11, 2014:
continued "Die Frage der phasengleichen oder zeitversetzten Bilanzierung des Gewinnanspruchs beschäftigt seit langem die Zivil- und Steuergerichte. Sie hat Bedeutung nicht nur für durch Mehrheitsbeteiligungen verbundene Unternehmen, sondern auch für die → Betriebsaufspaltung . Der obige Vorlagebeschluß kündigt einen Wandel in der Steuerrechtsprechung dahin an, eine phasengleiche Bilanzierung ganz aufzugeben und den Gewinnanspruch bei der Muttergesellschaft erst in dem Wirtschaftsjahr zu aktivieren, in dem die Tochtergesellschaft über die Gewinnverwendung beschlossen hat (vgl. auch Gruppe 3 S. 72)."
http://www.haufe.de/finance/finance-office-professional/vorl...

The fiscal (or financial) year of the Gesellschaften (couldn't they be holdings as well?) runs until 31 December 2013. Thus, a full year (important to note!) will be included, but 3 months later than it's "supposed to" - that's basically it.
Björn Vrooman Aug 11, 2014:
@RobinB In contrast to uyuni's statement, "zeitversetzt" always means later to me, not earlier.

I think it's quite funny, though, that despite the above statement I can agree to your "earlier" date.

It's simple with the German one: "zeitversetzt" means that despite something being supposed to occur at time A, it will be postponed to time B because of physical/social/business and other reasons.

"zeitversetzte Ausstrahlung" means a show that is broadcasted a tiny bit later than recorded (you know, where you get all the bleeps in people's statements).

You hear thunder zeitversetzt, because it takes time for the soundwaves to get from the origin of the lightning to you.

In the present case, it will be "zeitversetzte Bilanzierung" and look like this: (to be continued)
uyuni Aug 10, 2014:
In awe... ah, hhm..
Lancashireman Aug 10, 2014:
Tedman and Robin The rest of us can only look on in awe.
Ted Wozniak Aug 10, 2014:
Agree with Robin B. (as I normally do)
RobinB Aug 10, 2014:
Actually, I rather think they're being included as at (UK English)/as of (US English) an *earlier* date, because they have a 31 December year-end. I'd suggest rewriting the English to reflect this and not sticking too closely to the German. A couple of other points:
"vollkonsolidiert" is simply "consolidated" in English (unless you're specifically making a distinction versus "proportionately consolidated"). And "Geschäftsjahr" = "financial year" (UK English)/"fiscal year" (US English). The term "business year" is one of the possible translations of "Wirtschaftsjahr", which is a tax term and is normally translated as "tax year".

Proposed translations

+2
43 mins
Selected

included asynchronously

would leave it open whether it's a later or an earlier date, just like "zeitversetzt" can mean both later or earlier, respectively...

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Note added at 50 mins (2014-08-10 09:50:58 GMT)
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or 'time-shifted'

or' consecutively/sequentially' (if later date)
Peer comment(s):
agree Cilian O'Tuama : This comes closest so far IMO - i.e. at a different time/date, not specifying whether earlier or later. Though I'm sure there's a better word. I was playing with "staggered", as in "staggered inclusion to account for the...". Not convinced by that either.
1 day 11 hrs
THX a lot, Cilian!
agree Ramey Rieger (X) : Good solution. Anything else would imply later. 'Staggered occured to me as well, but also indicates a sequence or rhythm.
2 days 9 hrs
Many thanks, Ramey!
neutral Björn Vrooman : Policy of not going to disagree when posting an answer myself. Just want to say: a) general (usually later), b) business (HGB/UGB: later) c) here (IFRS but later). See below.//Closed based on peer agreement...whoever looks it up will be confused now.
6 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-4
48 mins

time-delayed included

time-delayed included
Peer comment(s):
disagree RobinB : Not English. In fact, quite meaningless.
5 hrs
disagree Jean-Marie Schlömer : Are you just guessing all the time?
7 hrs
disagree Cilian O'Tuama : There's nothing wrong with guessing, but then please choose lowest confidence level and not the highest. You'll also attract fewer disagrees that way.
1 day 10 hrs
disagree Ramey Rieger (X) : Literally
2 days 8 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

leave "zeitversetzt" blank

Keep it simple
Peer comment(s):
neutral Cilian O'Tuama : pretty meaningless sentence if you just leave it out
1 day 7 hrs
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+1
19 hrs

later included

simple as that I would say

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Note added at 19 hrs (2014-08-11 04:58:09 GMT)
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don't really see how it can be more complicated than that ...

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Note added at 19 hrs (2014-08-11 05:00:00 GMT)
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"zeitvesetzt" just means "at a later date" in this case

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Note added at 20 hrs (2014-08-11 05:06:01 GMT)
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post-included

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Note added at 20 hrs (2014-08-11 05:08:11 GMT)
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a posteriori

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Note added at 20 hrs (2014-08-11 05:08:42 GMT)
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will depend on how you see it
Peer comment(s):
neutral Cilian O'Tuama : I don't see why it must mean later
16 hrs
just by the way the source text is phrased ... I really don't see why we should complicate things here ...
agree Björn Vrooman : I agree. I don't know how other people come up with the notion that it could actually mean (included) earlier here. // The choice part was just a joke :) See recently entered answer and added reference information.
2 days 5 hrs
thanks Björn and on the question of providing only one suggestion I think it's quite OK to give other options (preferably giving one's preference of course)
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+1
5 days

as at/as of a different / an earlier date

Just another solution, in case you’re not satisfied with one of the answers above; see references and discussion posts (in particular, Robin’s statements); see also:

“Member States may, subject to the imposition of certain conditions, permit or require the drawing up of consolidated financial statements as at a different date, being the date as at which the entity financial statements of the majority of subsidiaries or the more significant subsidiaries are drawn up.”

http://www.djei.ie/commerce/companylawlegislation/Consultati...


“ISAP definition to be changed to ‘The date as of which the value of an asset or liability is presented. Under certain circumstances the actual calculations may have been made as of a different date and may be rolled forward or back to the measurement date.’ Measurement date will not be defined in the IAN Glossary at this time."

http://www.actuaries.org/CTTEES_ASC_INSACCTTF/Documents/ASCI...

You’re not going to find much in terms of references, though. Still, as Robin said: Don’t stick to closely to the German, especially not with words like that. I’ve tried to outline some of the scenarios in which the word can be used, but it depends on the topic and the speaker. The other option would be Robin’s “included as at/as of an earlier date” - also because I am not sure why you need to beat around the bush and make some confusing reference to earlier and later just because it could happen in certain situations. Here, the three-month rule and the December year-end make it pretty clear: It'll be included three months later.

Of course, irrespective of which system is being used by the company, you could add the reference entry information given below (maybe in parentheses). I say "irrespective" because of the following paragraph in both the HGB and the UGB (see both the German and the Austrian link in my reference entry):

"Wird bei abweichenden Abschlußstichtagen ein Unternehmen nicht auf der Grundlage eines auf den Stichtag und den Zeitraum des Konzernabschlusses aufgestellten Zwischenabschlusses in den Konzernabschluß einbezogen, so sind Vorgänge von besonderer Bedeutung für die Vermögens-, Finanz- und Ertragslage eines in den Konzernabschluß einbezogenen Unternehmens, die zwischen dem Abschlußstichtag dieses Unternehmens und dem Abschlußstichtag des Konzernabschlusses eingetreten sind, in der Konzernbilanz und der Konzern-Gewinn- und Verlustrechnung zu berücksichtigen oder im Konzernanhang anzugeben."

You may have to move around some of the sentence parts to include it at the right position (or make two sentences out of it):

“financial statements adjusted for the effects of significant transactions or events during the three months / between both reporting dates”
Peer comment(s):
agree RobinB : Your explanation seems to take rather a long way round, but this really is the only acceptable answer so far. The issue is simple: some group companies have an earlier FY-end (which is common), and this fact is disclosed (which is required). No big deal.
1 day 4 hrs
Thank you! I know it (the length) isn't pretty. Considering the confusion the German word seems to have created, I thought to myself: better safe than sorry. Have a nice Sunday!
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11 hrs

are included on an adjusted basis….

….since their fiscal year ends on 12/31.


BTW, Geschäftsjahr translates as 'fiscal year', not business year.

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Note added at 7 days (2014-08-17 11:24:12 GMT)
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The word is "sequentially". Come across it all the time on financial TV channels when discussing company earnings

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 days (2014-08-17 11:26:14 GMT)
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The word is "sequentially"; now the dime drops. Come across it all the time when watching financial TV and company earnings are discussed.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Cilian O'Tuama : you need to get the time factor in there somewhere - adjusted can mean a lot of things
1 day 31 mins
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

3 days 1 hr
Reference:

zeitversetzt explained

Because there seems to be some confusion about the word's use in a business context, let me give you some examples:

"Die europäischen Konzernunternehmen konnten somit bereits bewährte Strukturen übernehmen. Damit ließen sich die fehlenden Kenntnisse über die Materie ausgleichen.

Zeitversetzt, aber nicht als Letzte!

Grundsätzlich wurden die europäischen Einheiten später in den Prozess einbezogen als die US-amerikanischen. Da aber lediglich zeitversetzt gearbeitet wurde und die einzelnen Gesellschaften unterschiedlich schnell gearbeitet haben, waren die meisten Gesellschaften in Europa bereits fertig, als es in den USA noch immer einige Nachzügler gab."
http://www.boeckler.de/pdf/p_edition_hbs_177.pdf

"Zwar vergeben die Automobilhersteller die Entwicklungs- und Produktionsaufträge an die Zulieferunternehmen, die Vergütung dieser Leistung findet jedoch erst zeitversetzt statt."
http://www.boeckler.de/pdf/p_edition_hbs_177.pdf

"Ähnlich verhält es sich, wenn das empfangende Unternehmen die gelieferten Produkte, etwa Maschinen, betrieblich nutzt und die Aufwendungen in Form von Abschreibungen erst zeitversetzt erfasst werden."
http://www.bba.uni-oldenburg.de/files/lernplattform/bilanzie...

"Die Fortschreibung der Entwicklung der assoziierten Unternehmen wird ein Jahr zeitversetzt vorgenommen."
http://gb2002.uniqagroup.com/ereport.asp?fCompanyID=8&fActio...

"Diese Entwicklung wird sich bezogen auf den R+V Konzern wegen der überwiegend um ein Jahr zeitversetzten Bilanzierung des in Rückdeckung übernommenen Schaden- und Unfallversicherungsgeschäftes erst im Abschluss 2003 auswirken."
http://www.ruv.de/de/download/service/pdf/rv_gb2001_gruppe.p...

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Note added at 5 days (2014-08-16 04:42:43 GMT)
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Regarding your question, just take the apparently well-written Wiki entry:

"Sollte der Stichtag des Konzernabschlusses vom Bilanzstichtag des Tochterunternehmens abweichen, müssen diese grundsätzlich einen Zwischenabschluss auf den Konzernstichtag erstellen. Im deutschen und österreichischen Bilanzrecht sowie in sehr seltenen Fällen auch nach den IFRS kann jedoch anstelle des Zwischenabschlusses ein auf einen früheren Stichtag aufgestellter Abschluss einbezogen werden. In diesem Fall darf der Stichtag jedoch höchstens drei Monate vor dem Stichtag des Konzernabschlusses liegen."
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konzernabschluss

Thus, the companies will be included into the consolidated financial statement later than their as at/as of date, not earlier.

See also:
"3-Monatsregel
Sofern der Abschlussstichtag eines einbezogenen Unternehmens nicht mehr als drei Monate vor oder nach dem Konzernabschlussstichtag liegt, kann die Einbeziehung nach IFRS 10.B93 ggf. ohne Erstellung eines Zwischenabschlusses erfolgen. Wesentliche Geschäftsvorfälle innerhalb der 3-Monatsfrist sind jedoch korrigierend zu berücksichtigen. Die Regelung in § 299 Abs. 2 Satz 2 HGB unterscheidet sich von dieser IFRS-Vorschrift nur dadurch, dass der abweichende Abschlussstichtag nur bis zu drei Monate vor [emphasis added] dem Konzernabschlussstichtag, jedoch nicht nach dem Konzernabschlussstichtag liegen darf."
http://www.haufe.de/finance/finance-office-professional/ifrs...


This could be the case here as well. December 31 is three months before March, not after. Excerpt from German HGB (§ 299):

"Die Jahresabschlüsse der in den Konzernabschluß einbezogenen Unternehmen sollen auf den Stichtag des Konzernabschlusses aufgestellt werden. Liegt der Abschlußstichtag eines Unternehmens um mehr als drei Monate vor dem Stichtag des Konzernabschlusses, so ist dieses Unternehmen auf Grund eines auf den Stichtag und den Zeitraum des Konzernabschlusses aufgestellten Zwischenabschlusses in den Konzernabschluß einzubeziehen."
http://dejure.org/gesetze/HGB/299.html
[see also §52 UGB in Austria at http://www.jusline.at/252_Stichtag_für_die_Aufstellung_UGB.h...]

However: "Eine Mischung von Regeln des HGB und der IFRS/IAS ist nicht zulässig; es sei denn, die IFRS/IAS enthielten keine Vorschriften, wie z.B. für den Konzernlagebericht. Grundlage für den konsolidierten Abschluss ist der IAS 27 (rev. 2004)."
http://www.daswirtschaftslexikon.com/d/konzernabschluss/konz...


Now, the IFRS/IAS state:
“The financial statements of the parent and its subsidiaries used in preparing the consolidated financial statements should all be prepared as of the same reporting date, unless it is impracticable to do so. [IAS 27.26] If it is impracticable a particular subsidiary to prepare its financial statements as of the same date as its parent, adjustments must be made for the effects of significant transactions or events that occur between the dates of the subsidiary's and the parent's financial statements. And in no case may the difference be more than three months. [IAS 27.27]”
http://www.iasplus.com/en/standards/ifrs/ifrs10

“The parent and subsidiaries are required to have the same reporting dates, or consolidation based on additional financial information prepared by subsidiary, unless impracticable. Where impracticable, the most recent financial statements of the subsidiary are used, adjusted for the effects of significant transactions or events between the reporting dates of the subsidiary and consolidated financial statements. The difference between the date of the subsidiary's financial statements and that of the consolidated financial statements shall be no more than three months [IFRS 10:B92, IFRS 10:B93]”
http://www.iasplus.com/en/standards/ifrs/ifrs10

This means that if the company in question uses IAS/IFRS (and I suspect it does here), it could go either way - but only by three months! However, it also means that "zeitversetzt" (in this particular case) still refers to a later point in time, not an earlier one (the earlier one is the as at/as of date).
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