Mar 13, 2014 11:32
10 yrs ago
57 viewers *
Czech term
v. r.
Czech to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Pěkný den. Chtěl bych se zeptat, jak elegantně přeložit do EN tuto zkratku respektive zda je přípustný překlad "(signed)" za jménem. Mám pocit, že jsem blahé paměti viděl korekturu z Evr. komise, kde preferenčně opravovali "m. p." na něco se "signed" (jakožto běžnější ekvivalent), ale nemohu si vzpomenout, jak přesně ta formulace vypadala a nedaří se mi ji vygooglovat.
Zajímali by mě také názory na to, co se na orig. angl. listinách (z UK) běžně objevuje.
Díky za odpovědi a hezký den
Zajímali by mě také názory na to, co se na orig. angl. listinách (z UK) běžně objevuje.
Díky za odpovědi a hezký den
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +4 | m.p. |
Stuart Hoskins
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4 | manu propria |
Pavel Slama
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Proposed translations
+4
5 mins
Selected
m.p.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manu_propria
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Note added at 6 mins (2014-03-13 11:39:20 GMT)
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The EU correctors will often delete this (i.e. leave it blank).
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Note added at 10 hrs (2014-03-13 21:35:17 GMT)
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1. As to “signed”
I suppose the highly pedantic answer would be that, while accepting the elliptical construction of “vlastní rukou” in this case, it does not mean “signed”, i.e. you can obviously have a letter, a will, a CV, etc., “(na)psán vlastní rukou” (but not necessarily signed…). The same applies to “manu propria”, so it appears to be a fitting equivalent.
2. “v.r.” in legislation
In English law, the equivalent of “Zeman v. r.” is (in jest) “Be it enacted by the Queen's (King's) most Excellent Majesty…” (!)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/
3. “v.r.” in judgments
In published judgments (English law), the judges’ names (not signatures) are listed at the start of the document, but do not feature at the end, so perhaps we cannot find an equivalent here (I stand to be corrected).
http://supremecourt.uk/decided-cases/index.shtml
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/media/judgments/2014
For a bit of diversity (Victoria, Australia):
http://www.magistratescourt.vic.gov.au/jurisdictions/judgmen...
4. Solution
As Gerry mentions, in the ideal world, it would probably be best just to ignore “v.r.”, but otherwise I'd use “m.p.” and let the client (or proofreader) do what they want with it. That said, if you want to use "signed by... [in his/her own hand]" as a more elegant solution, I don't think too many people are going to be upset.
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Note added at 6 mins (2014-03-13 11:39:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The EU correctors will often delete this (i.e. leave it blank).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2014-03-13 21:35:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
1. As to “signed”
I suppose the highly pedantic answer would be that, while accepting the elliptical construction of “vlastní rukou” in this case, it does not mean “signed”, i.e. you can obviously have a letter, a will, a CV, etc., “(na)psán vlastní rukou” (but not necessarily signed…). The same applies to “manu propria”, so it appears to be a fitting equivalent.
2. “v.r.” in legislation
In English law, the equivalent of “Zeman v. r.” is (in jest) “Be it enacted by the Queen's (King's) most Excellent Majesty…” (!)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/
3. “v.r.” in judgments
In published judgments (English law), the judges’ names (not signatures) are listed at the start of the document, but do not feature at the end, so perhaps we cannot find an equivalent here (I stand to be corrected).
http://supremecourt.uk/decided-cases/index.shtml
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/media/judgments/2014
For a bit of diversity (Victoria, Australia):
http://www.magistratescourt.vic.gov.au/jurisdictions/judgmen...
4. Solution
As Gerry mentions, in the ideal world, it would probably be best just to ignore “v.r.”, but otherwise I'd use “m.p.” and let the client (or proofreader) do what they want with it. That said, if you want to use "signed by... [in his/her own hand]" as a more elegant solution, I don't think too many people are going to be upset.
Note from asker:
Thanks Stuart, I'd swear I really saw this changed into something with signed ("signed by"?), but I'll heed your advice. |
Děkuji vám, Stuarte, za obsáhlý, velmi poučný, a zábavný výklad. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Jennifer Taylor
2 mins
|
Thanks, Jennifer.
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agree |
Lenka Mandryszová
18 mins
|
Thanks, Lenka.
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agree |
Gerry Vickers
: I always put this and it completely confuses 'proofreaders'. I have seen it 'corrected' to all sorts of weird and wonderful things. If I leave it out (my preference) it confuses them as well ... can't win :)
24 mins
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Thanks, Gerry. Ne'er a truer word....
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agree |
Pavel Slama
2 hrs
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Thanks, babylondon.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Moc díky, nejen Stuartovi, ale také bybylondon a všem dalším přispěvatelům. "
2 hrs
manu propria
I expand the abbreviation, so that those who don't know it could google what it means.
Note from asker:
Díky! |
Discussion
Česká Wikipedie také uvádí, že v. r. je typické mj. i v rozhodnutích správních orgánů, což na první pohled celkem zapadá do kontextu Stuartova textu.
V. r. jsem vždy chápal v tom druhém ze smyslů, které zmiňuje babylondon.
Mimochodem: "můj" případ se týká notářského zápisu.
Ještě jednou díky, oběma, za bohaté objasnění (a Stuartovi za tu "paralelu" mezi českým prezidentem a jejím veličenstvem...).
Češtinářům omluva za gramatické chyby...
Stuart, your analysis is misguided, methinks. It *is* an ellipsis, but of "[podepsán] vlastní rukou". This can be in two contexts:
1/ When v. r. was used next to an actual signature, this was a kind of self-certification. (now obsolete)
2/ When v. r. is used next to a printed name, this means that the *original* of that document has been actually signed.
Now considering that, other than "m. p." we could also consider:
- mppria
- m/p
- manu propria
- sgd.
- duly signed
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Reference
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/serbo_croat_to_english/law_general...
Example (cz/de/en)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Mým_náro...
http://www.bl.uk/britishlibrary/~/media/BL/Global/world-war-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_my_people