| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Bilingual babies Thread poster: Lucy Phillips
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| Four languages, better than two | Jul 9, 2008 |
I'd recommend to speak to your children in English at breakfast, send them to a French school where they learn everything in French, have them read (aloud) and write in Spanish several times a week, and speak in German at dinner time. Systematically, firmly, with a strong, long-term commitment to the plan. There is a big goal at stake here. And beware of friends or relatives who don't cooperate with your project.
Carefully select your acquaintances among people who have similar plan... See more I'd recommend to speak to your children in English at breakfast, send them to a French school where they learn everything in French, have them read (aloud) and write in Spanish several times a week, and speak in German at dinner time. Systematically, firmly, with a strong, long-term commitment to the plan. There is a big goal at stake here. And beware of friends or relatives who don't cooperate with your project.
Carefully select your acquaintances among people who have similar plans in place. When in the playgrounds and parks, carefully supervise contact of your children with the monolingual children of irresponsible parents who don't care about multi-linguism, and don't let them jeopardise your children's future and all your efforts.
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Just joking of course. My advice: simply speak your mother tongue with your children, have your partner do the same and, if you live in a foreign country, use the local language naturally when talking to locals. Let small children choose their own way of expression. For a while, let them be CHILDREN, enjoy life and bring joy to your home! Life and society will be fierce on them later on. They will have plenty of time to learn more languages to perfection as they grow. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elena Simonelli 
Italy
Local time: 10:41
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Bilingual children speak late | Dec 29, 2008 |
Most of the bilingual children speak late. I had to explain to her that my child was normal (my second child spoke at nearly 3 years old). So there is external pression.
Dear Claudia (and all),
I knew about this and I am wondering: is it worthwile?
I am going to have a little girl in 3 months time and we would like to raise her bilingual (my husband is Spanish, I am Italian and we currently live in Italy).
Of course being bilingual is a great richness, she will be able to communicate with the Spanish part of the family, she won't have any problem if we ever move back to Spain... but speaking at three (or at 5, as the daughter of a friend of mine did) is also a problem.
I mean, at 3 they go to school... don't you think that this might delay her understanding of other things and her sociality?
Thank you all for sharing your experiences and comments.
| | | | | trilingual children... | Feb 4, 2009 |
Hi everybody
this topic is very interesting!
I would just talk about my own experience and share it with you. I am Italian, my husband is German and we live (and will probably stay) in France. We have two children who are 3 and 6 years old. I speak German with my husband and Italian with my children; my husband speaks only German with our sons who, at their turn, only speak French to each other. This means that our everyday life is (and has always been) trilingual; i.e.... See more Hi everybody
this topic is very interesting!
I would just talk about my own experience and share it with you. I am Italian, my husband is German and we live (and will probably stay) in France. We have two children who are 3 and 6 years old. I speak German with my husband and Italian with my children; my husband speaks only German with our sons who, at their turn, only speak French to each other. This means that our everyday life is (and has always been) trilingual; i.e. it is natural that everybody speaks one's own mother language to the children. We thought that is was the best solution, since it was "natural"... It sounds very complicated, but for our children it is natural too because it was always like this.
On one hand it is wonderful to raise trilingual children and see how easy it is for them to change from one language to the other (they just associate a person with a language, so they do not get confused), but on the other hand it is true that they start speaking (much) later than monolingual children.
Another interesting point: they are very interested in other languages too and learn written language sooner than monolingual children...
I realise they will never be perfectly trilingual (French is their mother language, since it is the language they speak at school and in their social environment) but nevertheless I do think it is worth trying!
Thank you for sharing your experiences. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alboa
Spain
Local time: 10:41
Spanish to Russian
+ ...
| Yes, it IS worthwile, Elena! | Feb 11, 2009 |
Elena Simonelli wrote:
Most of the bilingual children speak late. I had to explain to her that my child was normal (my second child spoke at nearly 3 years old). So there is external pression.
Dear Claudia (and all),
I knew about this and I am wondering: is it worthwile?
I am going to have a little girl in 3 months time and we would like to raise her bilingual (my husband is Spanish, I am Italian and we currently live in Italy).
Of course being bilingual is a great richness, she will be able to communicate with the Spanish part of the family, she won't have any problem if we ever move back to Spain... but speaking at three (or at 5, as the daughter of a friend of mine did) is also a problem.
I mean, at 3 they go to school... don't you think that this might delay her understanding of other things and her sociality?
Thank you all for sharing your experiences and comments.
Dear Elena, Barbara and all. I have just casually dropped in this topic. Elena, are you still worried about it? I think that it is a wonderfull opportunity for our children to learn something new. It is obvious I think and needless to explain why. So many things spoken about the benefits so far. AND, it is not as simple as this: not all bilingual the children speak late. I don't pretend to be an expert, but my daughter of 4 years speaks three languages (Spanish, Russian, English) and began speaking when she was 10 months old. Speaks now almost brilliantly. My 2 years old son is speaking as his monolingual mates, he just mixes words sometimes. But he really undersands everything. Believe me, it often not so simple as bilingual= speaks late. Go ahead, do not abandon the languages! it is a true treasure for their minds and possibly, for their future.
What I am slightly concerned about is ummmm... about being different. I think this is remarkable, to be able to be different from those near you, to be EXTRAordinary. But it hurts sometimes to see your children (for they are still learning and, as many of you know, often mix words or even phrases) being told something like "Oh, speak to me in like THIS, I don't understand you" or, even worse " Why are you speaking to me like this? Speak (e.g.) Spanish!" It is difficult to speak your native language with the child when everybody near you ( say, the doctor you attend) speaks another language.
Doesn't this happen to you? Fortunately enough, it doesn't happen frequently in my family, for our close people respect our language habbits. But what happens with those in the street, in their own school, casual or half casual (like doctors as I have said) people?
I resist all the themptations of talking Spanish when I am with my children; wherever we are, I still talk in Russian to them. Because we, as parents, are responsible for our children's attitudes, for their self confidence and evaluation. So we must, I think, teach them to be proud of being different, to be proud of what they are. Yet it is not so easy.
Summing all this up: Just wanted to ask if I am the only one who has noticed similar difficulties.
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| Sticking to our "bilingual" guns... | Feb 11, 2009 |
Hi Olga,
Like you, I do not think us bilingual families should make many concessions when speaking with our children in public.
I live in a small town in Catalonia and people here have always been either curious or suportive about me speaking to my daughter in English wherever we are. The only time I broke that rule was when I wanted the other person to understand that I was doing something about a situation involving them and my daughter. For example when my daughter... See more Hi Olga,
Like you, I do not think us bilingual families should make many concessions when speaking with our children in public.
I live in a small town in Catalonia and people here have always been either curious or suportive about me speaking to my daughter in English wherever we are. The only time I broke that rule was when I wanted the other person to understand that I was doing something about a situation involving them and my daughter. For example when my daughter took other kids' toys in the sandbox, some years back, I would tell her off in English and then repeat the warning in Catalan, so that the other mother would understand I was taking action to remedy a situation.
However, I do not think it rude that Jana and I converse in English between ourselves in public. After all, these are effectively "private" conversations and, in the end, it is nobody's business what we are saying to each other, but our own.
Perhaps I am lucky in that English is seen as a "status" language here and that may be why I have generally been met by understanding and support in my attempts (now succesful BTW) to give my child the gift of being able to communicate with a whole other world.
Another positive factor here is that Catalans are used to language switching anyway as they are all bilingual in Spanish and Catalan (despite what some of the press would have us beleive. )
I totally agree with you about educating our kids to celebrate their differences. Vive la difference! It's what makes the world a more interesting place... and keeps us in work ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elena Simonelli
Italy
Local time: 10:41
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
I just would like to add that my temptation is not giving up one language completely, but I was wondering if it could be better to introduce it later on.
I was reading this yesterday in a book: that the mother should always use her native language, even if it is not spoken where they live, because only this way she can express all her emotional world. The father's language should only be introduced when the baby is 2 years old; otherwise the baby might live the situation as mother-f... See more I just would like to add that my temptation is not giving up one language completely, but I was wondering if it could be better to introduce it later on.
I was reading this yesterday in a book: that the mother should always use her native language, even if it is not spoken where they live, because only this way she can express all her emotional world. The father's language should only be introduced when the baby is 2 years old; otherwise the baby might live the situation as mother-father conflict (like, "who do you love best?") and not speak at all (aphasia) or other language disorders (stuttering).
Despite I found it quite unfair (the father also has an emotional world to express!), the consequences also worry me a bit.
Of course, this is only one theory out of many others...
[Modificato alle 2009-03-03 19:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What? No paternal verbal input? | Mar 3, 2009 |
That is surely a recipe for a child not to have a good emotional relationship with the father for the rest of their life!
I'm sorry, Elena, but in your shoes, I would seriously question your source. Most scientific articles I have read about bilingualism stress that it is benefits, benefits, benefits, all the way for the child. I have never read any of the kind of comments you quoted in a serious journal. And I read loads when Jana (1998) was born, so as to arm myself against people... See more That is surely a recipe for a child not to have a good emotional relationship with the father for the rest of their life!
I'm sorry, Elena, but in your shoes, I would seriously question your source. Most scientific articles I have read about bilingualism stress that it is benefits, benefits, benefits, all the way for the child. I have never read any of the kind of comments you quoted in a serious journal. And I read loads when Jana (1998) was born, so as to arm myself against people pleadign with me not to speak to my child in my own tongue. Now, I have a happily adjusted tri-lingual speaker (Mum SP, Dad UK and Catalan in the town) . And Spanish Grandad has long apologised for doubting me!
The window for your child to acheive "native levels" in both languages is open wide at birth - your baby will absorb Daddy AND Mummy's language and any other they come into contact with, without effort. Leave that 2 years and all the evidence I read suggests you will have lost a golden opportunity. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | MMMPPPPHHHHH! | Mar 3, 2009 |
The idea of keeping the father silent sounds preposterous!
What would happen if you had another child after two years? The father would have to stay put for another two years, and then it would be too late to teach the first child a second language.
I have four tri-lingual kids and it works fine. I had a bit of a problem with the first child, because he sensed correction as critic, and for a time he would only say a word when he was certain that it was right.
He would say:... See more The idea of keeping the father silent sounds preposterous!
What would happen if you had another child after two years? The father would have to stay put for another two years, and then it would be too late to teach the first child a second language.
I have four tri-lingual kids and it works fine. I had a bit of a problem with the first child, because he sensed correction as critic, and for a time he would only say a word when he was certain that it was right.
He would say: Blau (Blue in German), then I replied "Azul" (Blue in Spanish). The baby stared at me angrily and shot back "No, BLAU!".
After a few weeks he realized it was just the same concept in two different languages and he became bilingual as well as twice as talkative (Urgh!) ▲ Collapse
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Alboa
Spain
Local time: 10:41
Spanish to Russian
+ ...
Elena, I think that this is the case where one should leave the theory and listen (sorry for sounding 'romantic') to one's heart and common sense. I have learnt that everything in language learning (regarding bilingual babies especially) should be as natural as possible. I mean, doesn't it seem overnatural to you to keep the dad silent for two years? Children are much cleverer and flexible than we think. They have a huge, really huge capacity for mental flexibility.
There is no proble... See more Elena, I think that this is the case where one should leave the theory and listen (sorry for sounding 'romantic') to one's heart and common sense. I have learnt that everything in language learning (regarding bilingual babies especially) should be as natural as possible. I mean, doesn't it seem overnatural to you to keep the dad silent for two years? Children are much cleverer and flexible than we think. They have a huge, really huge capacity for mental flexibility.
There is no problem for them to learn several languages, to speak them, as long as you do not doubt, as long as you act securely with a clear goal and a clear idea. So, do not doubt. It is such a miracle to see them switch so quickly (today, I saw my dauhter arrive at the class, speak in Spanish to her friends, respond to her teacher in En. and saying me "Buy, mom, I'll be waiting for you as always!" in Russian. For me, it IS a miracle and my personal small parental victory). So, they switch sooo quickly, sometimes even quicker than us, "professionals":-)
Berni, Oscar and everybody. A question: do your children have any accent in any of the languages they speak? My husband speaks Russian with accent, when my Barbara talks to him in Russian (when she desires so), she imitates his accent!!! This is the evidence of how attentive they (children) are, they absorb everything! When she speaks with me she doesn't have any accent at all.
But is a complete bilinguism possible? Without any language of the three (or two) being dominant? What is your experience? ▲ Collapse
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Bizarrely, given that I was the primary carer for the first 18 months of her life, my daughter used to have a marked Spanish accent when she spoke English. It was also odd given the pattern at home. Mum speaks SP, Dad UK and both parents alternate (when speaking to each other) almost unconsciously between UK & SP.
I was disappointed by this accent development, but when Jana spent a couple of summers playing with English speakign kids in the UK, this accent almost disappeared. Now sh... See more Bizarrely, given that I was the primary carer for the first 18 months of her life, my daughter used to have a marked Spanish accent when she spoke English. It was also odd given the pattern at home. Mum speaks SP, Dad UK and both parents alternate (when speaking to each other) almost unconsciously between UK & SP.
I was disappointed by this accent development, but when Jana spent a couple of summers playing with English speakign kids in the UK, this accent almost disappeared. Now she just sounds very difficult to place. There is no obvious regional accent (I speak UK with an "educated" Liverpool accent) or sociolect and the "foreign" hints that remain are not the stereotypical ones that betray Spanish origins. So, outside Catalonia, when English people meet Jana they almost invariably ask her where she is from after a few moments of phatic communion. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elena Simonelli
Italy
Local time: 10:41
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
Well, firt of all I never though that my husband would be silent or not talk to the baby for 2 years, because he speaks good Italian and often speaks Italian to me too.
I am sure the article I read was very synthetical and maybe superficial, but I think there are also many different cases...
Spanish and Italian are quite similar in grammar and prounciation, so much that we often mix languages or use a word from a language speaking the other (especially my husband, I tend to be more ... See more Well, firt of all I never though that my husband would be silent or not talk to the baby for 2 years, because he speaks good Italian and often speaks Italian to me too.
I am sure the article I read was very synthetical and maybe superficial, but I think there are also many different cases...
Spanish and Italian are quite similar in grammar and prounciation, so much that we often mix languages or use a word from a language speaking the other (especially my husband, I tend to be more cautious about it). You probably won't have this problem with babies that bilingual in Italian and English or Spanish and Russian, I guess. Or do you...? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sonja A
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:41
English to Croatian
Hi,
I am new to this forum so just wanted say hello.
I've got 2 bilingual sons, well one is fully bilingual and the other one has passive knowledge of both for now, lol, being extremely lazy and clever enough to think of ways of getting himself understood without actually speaking.
As far as the older one is concerned, going by his example I do have to claim that one language will always have to be dominant and i... See more Hi,
I am new to this forum so just wanted say hello.
I've got 2 bilingual sons, well one is fully bilingual and the other one has passive knowledge of both for now, lol, being extremely lazy and clever enough to think of ways of getting himself understood without actually speaking.
As far as the older one is concerned, going by his example I do have to claim that one language will always have to be dominant and in most cases it will be the language of the community. ▲ Collapse
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| adding my own experience | Mar 6, 2009 |
Hi everyone!
I do agree with a lot of you... keep it as natural as possible and, yes indeed, the benefits far outweigh any minor inconveniences which may arise. It's not only a question of feeling comfortable in two languages, it's also the cultural aspects, which are so difficult to acquire in later years.
I was brought up as a bilingual baby myself, in Uruguay, and don't remember ever being confused about what language to use in what situation or to whom. With my mother and... See more Hi everyone!
I do agree with a lot of you... keep it as natural as possible and, yes indeed, the benefits far outweigh any minor inconveniences which may arise. It's not only a question of feeling comfortable in two languages, it's also the cultural aspects, which are so difficult to acquire in later years.
I was brought up as a bilingual baby myself, in Uruguay, and don't remember ever being confused about what language to use in what situation or to whom. With my mother and her family I communicated in English, with my father and his, in Spanish.
I grew up to marry an Englishman (who's very comfortable with Spanish, however) and we've brought up our daughters (now 24 and 25) the same way. Agreed, their Spanish--the language of the community and most of their peers--is better than their English, but neither of them work in areas where absolutely perfect language skills are of the essence. If they did, they would have worked to improve them as needed, as even most real native speakers have to do when taking up work such as teaching or translating!
As I am myself, they are extremely grateful to have both languages at their command, but more importantly, that they feel very comfortable in both our Uruguayan culture and in the English-language culture they were steeped in as they were growing up--it is vital to expose children to the stories, traditions, songs, games, humour and so on of both language areas, particularly those of the language which is not used in the community (an illustrative example: they both adore British comedy, which often falls quite flat here...). We read stories to our daughters in both languages as soon as they were born--to the derision of some of our friends, but with the result that they now both enjoy reading--in both languages!
There are drawbacks, of course, sometimes one feels as though one doesn't belong fully to either culture. But as I say, that sort of feeling passes and generally one feels extremely grateful to have been given such an opportunity! The more languages you know well, the better aware you are of the world around you and, as I have read, the more your brain develops! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | This was a great book | Mar 21, 2009 |
Hi
A very intersting topic. I have a 1 year old son and I live in Spain. Both my husband and I speak pur native languages to him (me English, him Spanish). I found this book
Growing Up with Two Languages: A Practical Guide by Staffan Andersson and Una Cunningham-Andersson
very intersting and helpful. It'll be fascinating to see which language our son uses first!
| | | | | Very interesting article in the Economist: Bringing up baby bilingually | Apr 19, 2009 |
I just read a very interesting article in the Economist, in the Science and Technology section.
I found the article online, here is a short excerpt and the link:
"Language and cognition
Twice blessed
Apr 16th 2009
From The Economist print edition
Bilingual babies are precocious decision-makers
...getting to the nub of what is going on in a bilingual child’s brain, how a second language affects the way he thinks, and thus in what circumsta... See more I just read a very interesting article in the Economist, in the Science and Technology section.
I found the article online, here is a short excerpt and the link:
"Language and cognition
Twice blessed
Apr 16th 2009
From The Economist print edition
Bilingual babies are precocious decision-makers
...getting to the nub of what is going on in a bilingual child’s brain, how a second language affects the way he thinks, and thus in what circumstances being bilingual may be helpful."
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13489730
[Edited at 2009-04-19 16:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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