| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Same rate, different languages, not fair Thread poster: Mark Hamlen
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Mark Hamlen 
France
Local time: 17:50
French to English
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I translate to English from French and Russian. Russian words are enormous and often translate into 2 and 3 English words. French words are tiny and groups of them often translate into one English word. I charge the same rate per source for both languages, of course agencies pay about the same rate for both source languages. But I think it's not fair. Please discuss!!
| | | | SirReaL
Germany
Local time: 17:50
English to Russian
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| Two solutions | Feb 14, 2011 |
1) Charge different rates depending on source language (I think this is a no-brainer!)
2) Charge by the target wordcount.
| | | | Mark Hamlen
France
Local time: 17:50
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | In an ideal world | Feb 14, 2011 |
Your solutions would be great in an ideal world, but the clients all insist on about the same rate for all languages. And show me a client who's going to accept to pay for the target number of words. I've had one, one time because we couldn't count the words in the doc.
This is probably where the EU standard in Brussels of charging per character is useful, but I can't get used to character counts in estimating work.
| | | | | Interesting... | Feb 14, 2011 |
Mark Hamlen wrote:
I translate to English from French and Russian. Russian words are enormous and often translate into 2 and 3 English words. French words are tiny and groups of them often translate into one English word. I charge the same rate per source for both languages, of course agencies pay about the same rate for both source languages. But I think it's not fair. Please discuss!!
Interesting question, friend! Let's compare the texts from the latest Proz translation contest (word-count based on the winning entries)):
English-French
http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=past_contests&sp_sub_mode=view_language&ctlid=1435&from_url=past_contests
and English- Russian:
http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=past_contests&sp_sub_mode=view_language&ctlid=1324&from_url=past_contests
English:
I remember reading once that some fellows use language to conceal thought, but it's been my experience that a good many more use it instead of thought...
320 words
French:
J'ai souvenir d'avoir lu un jour que pour certains, la parole sert à masquer la pensée ; j'ai pour ma part remarqué que dans la majorité des cas, elle la remplace...
369 words
Russian:
Помню, однажды я прочитал, что некоторым людям слова нужны, чтобы скрыть мысли, однако я куда чаще встречал людей, использующих слова вместо мыслей...
262 words
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Mark Hamlen
France
Local time: 17:50
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Great illustration | Feb 14, 2011 |
Thanks Alexander. That shows it perfectly. A difference of 100 words in a single sentence to say exactly the same thing.
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Mark Hamlen wrote:
Thanks Alexander. That shows it perfectly. A difference of 100 words in a single sentence to say exactly the same thing.
No-no Not in a single sentence - I just cited only the beginnings. The full texts can be seen by the links above. Each slightly more than a standard page. But still the difference is striking.
[Edited at 2011-02-14 20:25 GMT]
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 17:50
German to Swedish
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Translation time is not spent in typing X number of words instead of Y, but in constructing clear, concise expressions (and occasionally in research). Less words take more time!
(That said, translating literary Russian into a non-Slavic language must be exceptionally time-consuming.)
Word count of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights:
Spanish: 4105
French: 3912
English: 3894
Italian: 3685
Bulgarian: 3559
German: 3490
Swedish: 33... See more Translation time is not spent in typing X number of words instead of Y, but in constructing clear, concise expressions (and occasionally in research). Less words take more time!
(That said, translating literary Russian into a non-Slavic language must be exceptionally time-consuming.)
Word count of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights:
Spanish: 4105
French: 3912
English: 3894
Italian: 3685
Bulgarian: 3559
German: 3490
Swedish: 3363
Danish: 3350
Finnish: 2622 (!) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mark Hamlen
France
Local time: 17:50
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Finnish wins | Feb 14, 2011 |
The more inflected the language the more information in a single word. Finnish of course is highly inflected.
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Tarja Braun
Germany
Local time: 17:50
Member (2008)
German to Finnish
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| Different rates for different languages | Feb 14, 2011 |
I charge more for Finnish than for English or German, you can imagine why.
Example:
English: "in our house as well" - 5 words
German: "auch in unserem Haus" - 4 words
Finnish: "talossammekin" - 1 word
No word count tool counts the suffixes in Finnish, but every single preposition and article in English and German.
Many agencies do not understand the difference and are really suprised. No, my rate for Finnish is not German word multiplied by four (approx. by 1.... See more I charge more for Finnish than for English or German, you can imagine why.
Example:
English: "in our house as well" - 5 words
German: "auch in unserem Haus" - 4 words
Finnish: "talossammekin" - 1 word
No word count tool counts the suffixes in Finnish, but every single preposition and article in English and German.
Many agencies do not understand the difference and are really suprised. No, my rate for Finnish is not German word multiplied by four (approx. by 1.4). ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Less words take more time! | Feb 14, 2011 |
Not always as while translating to swedish I from English I often have trouble with the EN compound words that are just "piled" up after each other when there is around 4 nouns in a row (no commas) it often takes time to understand who of them actually belong together.
I charge more for French to Swedish than for English to Swedish because they French has a way of expressing themselfs that is out of this world and because it's a less common combination.
| | | | Michal Glowacki
Poland
Local time: 17:50
Member (2010)
English to Polish
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| Different rates | Feb 14, 2011 |
Not sure about your language pairs, but most of the agencies I've worked for have always had the possibility to charge different rates for different language combinations. All the more so as I know for a fact that some of them charge more for translations from Eastern European languages than they charge for FIGS. So I think it's just a matter of negotiation.
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Mark Hamlen wrote:
Your solutions would be great in an ideal world, but the clients all insist on about the same rate for all languages. And show me a client who's going to accept to pay for the target number of words. I've had one, one time because we couldn't count the words in the doc.
Sounds like you need some new clients. You don't have to insta-dump all your old ones, but next time a new client contacts you, give them your preferred rates for Russian and for French and stick to it. You're a freelancer, not a slave.
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| Agree with Michal | Feb 15, 2011 |
I personally work with only one language pair (in only one direction), but I happen to know other translators who work in other pairs/more than one pair, and I know that they can and do charge different rates depending on the languages and directions involved.
Also, when translating from German into English, it is certainly not unheard of to charge by target word (or in many cases, target line). As a matter of fact, my clients know I prefer to charge by target, and most agree to th... See more I personally work with only one language pair (in only one direction), but I happen to know other translators who work in other pairs/more than one pair, and I know that they can and do charge different rates depending on the languages and directions involved.
Also, when translating from German into English, it is certainly not unheard of to charge by target word (or in many cases, target line). As a matter of fact, my clients know I prefer to charge by target, and most agree to this. If they don't, they understand that the rate I quote per source word is "higher".
Given what I've seen and experienced, I would have to say it is, as Michal says, a matter of negotation, although I would hesitate to add the qualifier "just".
Of course negotiation can be difficult - especially when you're concerned about endangering a long-standing business relationship - but perseverence pays. And sometimes, unfortunately, you "just" need to find new clients. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 18:50
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Higher rate naturally | Feb 15, 2011 |
Here the drawbacks of word-count show up. Translations should be rated on the output like in the German NZ-system (55 characters) instead of source-language word-count.
Hardly a professional PM does not know about these facts, they just try to get a free ride when playing stupid.
My rate for Finnish source words is one third higher than for German source words.
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I remember reading a similar topic many months ago. If I'm not mistaken, the topic starter's complaint was about the unfairness of translating from German into English, where the rate is based on the source word. I'm sure some of the people who entered their comment to this forum would know what I mean, i.e. German has many compound words which would be counted as only ONE word, which in English would be broken into two or even three words when translated.
If the language pair is r... See more I remember reading a similar topic many months ago. If I'm not mistaken, the topic starter's complaint was about the unfairness of translating from German into English, where the rate is based on the source word. I'm sure some of the people who entered their comment to this forum would know what I mean, i.e. German has many compound words which would be counted as only ONE word, which in English would be broken into two or even three words when translated.
If the language pair is rare or if there are not many competitors, why not raise the rate for those particular pair(s)? That's one solution, IMO. ▲ Collapse
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