| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Another scammer Thread poster: Inez Ulrich
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Inez Ulrich 
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
Hi there,
from time to time it happens again: a client won't pay.
Now this time it is a guy from Germany who posted the job here on Proz (I also did a short test and he was very happy with that), and because I am already cautious I wanted to have a partial payment in advance. He agreed to do that, € 150,- out of around € 450,-. The money wasn't on my bank account as agreed and I emailed him. It took him several days to answer and then he said he had transfered the money a... See more Hi there,
from time to time it happens again: a client won't pay.
Now this time it is a guy from Germany who posted the job here on Proz (I also did a short test and he was very happy with that), and because I am already cautious I wanted to have a partial payment in advance. He agreed to do that, € 150,- out of around € 450,-. The money wasn't on my bank account as agreed and I emailed him. It took him several days to answer and then he said he had transfered the money and that his bank needs 2 days for processing. I told him to send a transfer voucher which he couldn't because he admitted that he had a new app for his bank and didn't know how to handle it so the money didn't go through (sure...). Finally I received € 150, and started working. Communication kept being difficult because he never answered questions right away but only after a min. of 24 hours, often only after 2 days. I delivered as agreed, everything was fine and he said he would pay after 15 days, a few days before my invoice was due. Great! Only after 15 days no money on my account. I wrote. Nothing. I called him and he told me a lot of things, like that he always needs two days to answer emails (huh? really good for a business), that he had too much to do etc., and that the quality of the work of the other colleagues he assigned parts of the text to was not good and that those tight deadlines in translation industry nowadays is so bad and that quality would suffer and so on and so on. Finally he promised to finally pay and asked if I would be willing to edit the work of the others (which I agreed to, but of course I would wait until I have my money for the translation).
Later I got an email from him saying that he hadn't enough money, that he would pay € 180,- (which I received on Tuesday) and the rest on Tuesday (which was two days ago). Yesterday nothing on my account, of course. Again I wrote and reminded him of his promise. Then yesterday night, at 12:15 am, I got an email from him telling me he hadn't the money and that he hoped to be able to pay this week or at the beginning of next week latest. I got really angry and wrote back that he never once kept one of his promises and that I'm simply fed up and that I expect my money on Friday latest. At 2 am he wrote back that a translator gets paid after his work is done, and that the works of the colleagues and also partly mine was not what he expected. After all he had been making an advance payment! (so what? I have delivered the whole translation three weeks ago, but he likes hapring on his generous advance payment) So he was sorry.
I only told him that these were only lame excuses if money wasn't on my account I would take legal steps (to which he answered that I whould stay polite, and that he payed me e 150,- in advance (did he mention that before? and that I ask for more than is possible. Yeah, getting yoour money after you delivered your work is asking for the impossible.) This guy is clearly saying sth completely different each time he opens his mouth and is clearly trying to deceive me. I'm only astonished about the way he is doing it. I have all the email conversation where he constantly contradicts himself and it is getting quite clear that he simply doesn't have the money to pay me. I suppose none of the other translators was paid either, or only in part.
As he is in Germany, I will take legal steps and also think about reporting fraud. He still owes me around € 320,-.
This is not so much for getting advice but to showcase another "variety" of not getting paid. I'm only thankful that I don't have to deal with sth like that because generally my clients pay like clockwork, but it is making me angry anyway. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | and on it goes.... | Aug 22, 2019 |
he sent me several other mails today....directly after that last one he said that he told me he hadn't the money and that I should wait for his feedback. He seems to think he has found a way by claiming I hadn't delivered good quality (and isn't able to place commas correctly in his emails). I only told him again that Friday is my deadline for the payment, after that legal steps. Exactly because he behaved that way, lied and cheated, and I'm really mad by now.
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 06:57
German to English
| Sounds like an idiot | Aug 22, 2019 |
It's hard to tell whether the person involved set out to scam you, but it's clear that he's no businessperson. From your description, it appears that he took on a project that was too much to handle himself, got other people involved (yourself included), and the whole scheme fell apart. It's also possible that he has problems with the end customer who may or may not be willing to pay for reasons unknown to you.
The only time I had to use a collection agency involved a similar situat... See more It's hard to tell whether the person involved set out to scam you, but it's clear that he's no businessperson. From your description, it appears that he took on a project that was too much to handle himself, got other people involved (yourself included), and the whole scheme fell apart. It's also possible that he has problems with the end customer who may or may not be willing to pay for reasons unknown to you.
The only time I had to use a collection agency involved a similar situation. An agency (one-man shop) owed me several thousand dollars and wouldn't pay (In my state, small claims court has a $1500 limit). I finally involved a collection agency which charged me one-third of the amount owed. In the end it turned out that the end client was an automotive supplier which was insisting upon paying their suppliers after 120 days (becoming increasingly common in the US auto industry). My customer wasn't a crook, just a terrible businessman.
Seeking legal remedy may be the best way to recover your money. Good luck. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| The last option | Aug 22, 2019 |
It seems like he is using the "poor quality" card to somehow get out of having to pay you. He had more than sufficient time to check the quality of your work, so this is nothing but a poor excuse.
You could inform him that, if he doesn't pay the remaining amount he owes you within a few days, that you will take legal action against him. Being a poor businessman is no excuse for not paying you.
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Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Kevin Fulton wrote:
It's hard to tell whether the person involved set out to scam you, but it's clear that he's no businessperson. From your description, it appears that he took on a project that was too much to handle himself, got other people involved (yourself included), and the whole scheme fell apart. It's also possible that he has problems with the end customer who may or may not be willing to pay for reasons unknown to you.
The only time I had to use a collection agency involved a similar situation. An agency (one-man shop) owed me several thousand dollars and wouldn't pay (In my state, small claims court has a $1500 limit). I finally involved a collection agency which charged me one-third of the amount owed. In the end it turned out that the end client was an automotive supplier which was insisting upon paying their suppliers after 120 days (becoming increasingly common in the US auto industry). My customer wasn't a crook, just a terrible businessman.
Seeking legal remedy may be the best way to recover your money. Good luck.
Thanks for sharing your story. It just sucks when sth like that happens, and when there are larger sums involved. I don't know what it is, but by now he is getting insulting, and before that he told me that 60 days payment terms are usual in Germany, which is BS. I only told him that it is completely irrelevant what he thinks is usual or not, he knew my payment terms from the start and agreed.
I don't answer any longer. I have said what I needed to say and now he will pay or I will file a claim at the small claims court. At least that is possible without hiring a lawyer.
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thayenga wrote:
It seems like he is using the "poor quality" card to somehow get out of having to pay you. He had more than sufficient time to check the quality of your work, so this is nothing but a poor excuse.
You could inform him that, if he doesn't pay the remaining amount he owes you within a few days, that you will take legal action against him. Being a poor businessman is no excuse for not paying you.
yes, he switches between "I don't have the money" and "You delivered not good work", I guess he is a little stressed by now. I will take legal steps next next Monday if no payment has been made.
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If you got the job through Proz, you should send a non-payment report to Proz staff. I’ve submitted a support ticket to Proz staff in the 3 or 4 occasions of late or non-payment and I must say that they have been very helpful and quick to respond. For me it worked well, except for one case, I got paid almost immediately! You should give them as much proof as possible…
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Teresa Borges wrote:
If you got the job through Proz, you should send a non-payment report to Proz staff. I’ve submitted a support ticket to Proz staff in the 3 or 4 occasions of late or non-payment and I must say that they have been very helpful and quick to respond. For me it worked well, except for one case, I got paid almost immediately! You should give them as much proof as possible…
Thank you, Teresa, I haven't thought about this before, but you are right. I have tons of proof, all his contradicting emails.
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| Scammer is possible | Aug 26, 2019 |
Hi Inez, I read your post and comments as well. Watch out because it might be a scammer actually! I had a bad experience last year with a supposed to be an American oil rig engineering who contacted me through Linkedin. He told me he needed a translator based in Italy for a project related to kid's empowerment but that was an excuse to chat. In a nutshell I had the same feeling you had about the contradictory behavior and making feel guilty in some way. Actually I was in contact with two persons... See more Hi Inez, I read your post and comments as well. Watch out because it might be a scammer actually! I had a bad experience last year with a supposed to be an American oil rig engineering who contacted me through Linkedin. He told me he needed a translator based in Italy for a project related to kid's empowerment but that was an excuse to chat. In a nutshell I had the same feeling you had about the contradictory behavior and making feel guilty in some way. Actually I was in contact with two persons or more (I don't know exactly how many others were behind the fake engineer), sending me requests from Nigeria instead of USA (I found out this information through Wordpress statistics tool). My advice is to stop immediately the exchange of emails and other things to avoid getting deeply involved in. Your health is more important than Euro 320! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Elena Mordenti wrote:
Hi Inez, I read your post and comments as well. Watch out because it might be a scammer actually! I had a bad experience last year with a supposed to be an American oil rig engineering who contacted me through Linkedin. He told me he needed a translator based in Italy for a project related to kid's empowerment but that was an excuse to chat. In a nutshell I had the same feeling you had about the contradictory behavior and making feel guilty in some way. Actually I was in contact with two persons or more (I don't know exactly how many others were behind the fake engineer), sending me requests from Nigeria instead of USA (I found out this information through Wordpress statistics tool). My advice is to stop immediately the exchange of emails and other things to avoid getting deeply involved in. Your health is more important than Euro 320!
I stopped writing anyway. I waited for another week now for my money, nothing.
I will get a court payment order today and also inform the client of that scammer that they cannot use my translation because he didn't pay for it. Maybe I also report fraud. And it is almost € 400,- (my mistake)
| | | | dkfmmuc
Local time: 12:57
German to English
+ ...
| It was not your fault & a wave of positive energy | Aug 30, 2019 |
Dear colleague,
thank you for your thread. Just would like to send positive energy and empathy to you.
IMHO you have handled the order of an unknown client in the right and perfect way. You have asked for an amount as advance payment.
This enables you to trace back the customer. Furthermore he can forget all excuses like "I haven't ordered anything" or it was a "trainee not allowed to represent the company to suppliers" etc..
Because t... See more Dear colleague,
thank you for your thread. Just would like to send positive energy and empathy to you.
IMHO you have handled the order of an unknown client in the right and perfect way. You have asked for an amount as advance payment.
This enables you to trace back the customer. Furthermore he can forget all excuses like "I haven't ordered anything" or it was a "trainee not allowed to represent the company to suppliers" etc..
Because the company or he has made the payment and thereby acknowledges a cotractual relationship.
So the only method for the customer to reduce the payment obligation is to make fake quality complaints.
But he has to proof the quality issue.
So you can start a "Mahnbescheid" even without a lawyer and look what will happen.
Just for your info: Normally I only ask for down/advance payment of 2 or 3 Euros or so. Just for having the paper trace. So this is the same procedure like you described
Keeping my fingers crossed.
Best regards
Gerd ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
dkfmmuc wrote:
Dear colleague,
thank you for your thread. Just would like to send positive energy and empathy to you.
...
Best regards
Gerd
Hi Gerd,
thanks a lot! I can always use positive energy and usually try to send out the same...life has taught me that long ago, but it was also a long way to be able to fully understand and implement. Not too long agon a situation like that would have absorbed my whole mind and I would brood over it for days and weeks. Not anymore.
That guy is not from an agency, he has a little marketing business, and he is an a..., simply put. Found some youtube videos where he is talking about social fairness etc. and where your rent goes to for "Die Linke"....thought about putting some comment under those videos
I will issue a Mahnbescheid this weekend and I will also try to find out if a Betrugsanzeige would be appropriate or sth. like that. If he contradicts the Mahnbescheid, I will report fraud anyway.
As for the quality issues: he had more than 4 weeks for letting me know about those issues, even though he repeatedly told me he was happy and that I should edit the other translators work, because the quality fo their translations was not great. And I have written proof of that. His whole behaviour and his contradicting emails speak a clear language.
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| Only the result matters! | Aug 31, 2019 |
Inez, while you did make a little mistake with risk management/due diligence, now you're doing it right: no 'bless-you-charity' to fraudsters and spongers, especially at your own expense.
Perhaps a man was new to biz, he was cheated and in dire need or had some urgent reasons, yet he shouldn't have acted like that to other people, as if a thief or a parasite.
Actually, telling people from problems [actions] helps me greatly to abstract away ... See more Inez, while you did make a little mistake with risk management/due diligence, now you're doing it right: no 'bless-you-charity' to fraudsters and spongers, especially at your own expense.
Perhaps a man was new to biz, he was cheated and in dire need or had some urgent reasons, yet he shouldn't have acted like that to other people, as if a thief or a parasite.
Actually, telling people from problems [actions] helps me greatly to abstract away from subjectivity and clearly tell biz from emotions. Unfortunately, many freelancers seem to confuse 'sympathy' with 'understanding', whereas in business it boils down to fair trade--as agreed. Why, I understand people just learn to live and to do business, so when the misunderstanding is settled, I can deal with that man again, but on my terms until he proves he is the man of worth.
Although any service goes down in price right after delivery [and often before payment], I consider my translation as a custom/handmade/unique troubleshooting product, so it retains both the price and value.
By the way, business-wise sometimes it does make sense to accept a service, a good contact, or on a credit as a part of the payment--but wisely. Of course, a cherry cake, a one-month pool card, a baseball cap, or a sincere 'thank-you!' could hardly seem an investment, but it's how they build the social capital, improving their standing; however, NOT regarding liars, cheaters, and profiteers.
Take care ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
dkfmmuc wrote:
Dear colleague,
....
Dear Gerd,
do you know, if "Dienstleistungsvertrag" is the correct category for the claim? Nothing else seems to fit. Thank you!
| | | | Inez Ulrich
Germany
Local time: 12:57
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Mahnbescheid is finished | Sep 6, 2019 |
Okay, the court order is sent, and I also talked to the company client who assigned this job to the guy. They were as unhappy as I am, as he didn't deliver the translations after 3 weeks, as agreed, but after 2 months. They didn't pay him and have hired another translator for doing the whole job from scratch. So it is clear why he has no money. And it is also clear the other translators didn't get their money, too.
I absolutely consider reporting him for fraud. What do you think?
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