Mar 1, 2013 22:36
11 yrs ago
Russian term
Памятник нерукотворный
Russian to English
Art/Literary
Other
This is from Pushkin, of course, which in itself is an elaboration on Horace's original Exegi monumentum. The word nerukotvornyi indisputably means "not built/made/wrought by hand". At least, this is exactly how it is is rendered in the two existing translations I have found:
http://www.albionmich.com/inspiration/pushpoems2.html#exe
http://imadin12.narod.ru/entexts/pushkin1.html#7
Every other possible translation, including those offered in Mutlitran as "Christian" and "religious" seem to be outright wrong. That's the good news.
The bad news, the way I see it, is that "not made by hands" primarily refers to eastern orthodox imagery, Russian or Greek, and as such the reference isn't particularly obvious for most English speaking audiences, which makes it a fairly poor choice for my sinister purposes. Do you think there may be something closer to home available, something more organic to English with a similar ring? I don't need a translation per se. I need an attractive soundbite if you can think of one. A religious undertone to it would be welcome, but it doesn't have to have one.
This is the reason whey I would be primarily interested to hear from natives on this, but of course any ideas or discussions are welcome. Many thanks, everyone.
http://www.albionmich.com/inspiration/pushpoems2.html#exe
http://imadin12.narod.ru/entexts/pushkin1.html#7
Every other possible translation, including those offered in Mutlitran as "Christian" and "religious" seem to be outright wrong. That's the good news.
The bad news, the way I see it, is that "not made by hands" primarily refers to eastern orthodox imagery, Russian or Greek, and as such the reference isn't particularly obvious for most English speaking audiences, which makes it a fairly poor choice for my sinister purposes. Do you think there may be something closer to home available, something more organic to English with a similar ring? I don't need a translation per se. I need an attractive soundbite if you can think of one. A religious undertone to it would be welcome, but it doesn't have to have one.
This is the reason whey I would be primarily interested to hear from natives on this, but of course any ideas or discussions are welcome. Many thanks, everyone.
Proposed translations
+2
18 mins
Selected
"that never hands could build" (c) W. Vickery ? / "without hands" (c) KJV / "unmanufactured"-lit.
Once upon a time I thought about this a lot. I incorporated this poem into an article and used a version based on the one in Walter Vickery's book on Pushkin, except I altered it - and I can't recall if the first line was his version, or mine. I think he has the other word order: "I've raised a monument".
In any event, here's what I wrote about "нерукотворный", including a footnote to an entire article on the topic. Evidently Pushkin only used this word one time.
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Note added at 27 mins (2013-03-01 23:03:36 GMT)
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My thoughts: A few months before he was killed, Pushkin wrote his version of the Horatian ode on the immortality of the poet, “Exegi monumentum aere perennius. . .” (“I have built a monument more lasting than bronze . . .”). Derzhavin had begun his own ode on this theme:
Я памятник воздвиг чудесный, вечный...
A monument I’ve built, wondrous, eternal . . .
Keeping Derzhavin’s language exactly, through vozdvig, Pushkin then said something entirely new:
Я памятник воздвиг нерукотворный...
A monument I’ve built, unmanufactured . . .
Literally: “not by hands made.” Pushkin used the word nerukotvorny only this once. It is rooted in the Old Church Slavonic of the Gospels, where Jesus is reported to say he will build a new temple “without hands” (Mark, 14:58). In Russian, the term also describes miraculous icons, religious images believed to have been painted not with a brush in a human hand, but by divine intervention. [Note 50] The entire poem reads:
A monument I’ve raised that never hands could build,
The people’s path to it will not be overgrown,
Its head, unbowed, untamed, stands higher from the ground
Than Alexander’s column stands. [Etc.]
Note 50: David G. Huntley, “On the source of Pushkin’s nerukotvornyj,” Die Welt der Slaven (Wiesbaden, 1970), Jg. 15, Heft 4, p. 362.
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I don't find Huntley's article online. I guess I found it at the Library of Congress in olden times.
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Note added at 30 mins (2013-03-01 23:06:53 GMT)
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But if your sinister aim is not to translate the poem, but just to say something like that, then there would be several ways to play around with expressions alluding to St. Mark. Here's that verse:
We hear him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
"made without hands"
"made by no man's hand"
etc.
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Note added at 31 mins (2013-03-01 23:07:26 GMT)
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Correction: We heard him say...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-03-02 02:22:36 GMT)
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See the poems I posted in the discussion. I think that if you're writing in English, you might do well to use some allusion to the classical English expressions of the same idea (and they both allude to Horace, of course), rather than Pushkin's - which indeed would tend not to be recognized.
In any event, here's what I wrote about "нерукотворный", including a footnote to an entire article on the topic. Evidently Pushkin only used this word one time.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2013-03-01 23:03:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
My thoughts: A few months before he was killed, Pushkin wrote his version of the Horatian ode on the immortality of the poet, “Exegi monumentum aere perennius. . .” (“I have built a monument more lasting than bronze . . .”). Derzhavin had begun his own ode on this theme:
Я памятник воздвиг чудесный, вечный...
A monument I’ve built, wondrous, eternal . . .
Keeping Derzhavin’s language exactly, through vozdvig, Pushkin then said something entirely new:
Я памятник воздвиг нерукотворный...
A monument I’ve built, unmanufactured . . .
Literally: “not by hands made.” Pushkin used the word nerukotvorny only this once. It is rooted in the Old Church Slavonic of the Gospels, where Jesus is reported to say he will build a new temple “without hands” (Mark, 14:58). In Russian, the term also describes miraculous icons, religious images believed to have been painted not with a brush in a human hand, but by divine intervention. [Note 50] The entire poem reads:
A monument I’ve raised that never hands could build,
The people’s path to it will not be overgrown,
Its head, unbowed, untamed, stands higher from the ground
Than Alexander’s column stands. [Etc.]
Note 50: David G. Huntley, “On the source of Pushkin’s nerukotvornyj,” Die Welt der Slaven (Wiesbaden, 1970), Jg. 15, Heft 4, p. 362.
- - -
I don't find Huntley's article online. I guess I found it at the Library of Congress in olden times.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2013-03-01 23:06:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
But if your sinister aim is not to translate the poem, but just to say something like that, then there would be several ways to play around with expressions alluding to St. Mark. Here's that verse:
We hear him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
"made without hands"
"made by no man's hand"
etc.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2013-03-01 23:07:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Correction: We heard him say...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-03-02 02:22:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
See the poems I posted in the discussion. I think that if you're writing in English, you might do well to use some allusion to the classical English expressions of the same idea (and they both allude to Horace, of course), rather than Pushkin's - which indeed would tend not to be recognized.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Rachel. So "not made by hands" is, apparently, a legitimate if infrequent way to put it. I checked, and all the existing English translations of Mark 14:58 have it this way, give or take. Man, I should have learned my scriptures better, but I have an excuse. I never went to Sunday school, I only went to political informations :) It is also good to know that someone was looking into this as early as 1970 when yours truly here was not even wearing an Oktyabryatskaya zvezdochka yet. Nothing is knew indeed. As my better half likes to put it, don't kid yourself, we are not original. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Katerina O.
: "that never hands could build" is good. Though the age of machines that we live in gives it a different sound...
2 hrs
|
Thanks, Katerina.
|
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agree |
cyhul
12 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "As always, I wish I had oodles of Kudlez to give since one way or another I put most of what has been suggested here to good use. Still, Rachel did by far the most damage to my future readership by not only confirming the biblical quote (to be later corroborated by David, thank you, Sir) but also giving me extra texts that come morning led to additional word play I have not anticipated originally. Special thanks to Olga whose suggestion helped produce my own "otherworldly" and to incomparable Michael Korovkin whose wit (and wits too) helped me out yet again, albeit in a somewhat different way. Hats off to Anton; I am still trying to remember how to say that word correctly though, in all fairness, it doesnt' sound like complete Greek anymore. "
1 hr
An intangible monument/memorial
This is my attempt to render the underlying meaning of "not wrought by hand" in this context, which is different from that of the mystical iconography in Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
Incidentally, if we were to use the religious terminology anyway and the context permitted it, I might suggest "acheiropoietic" - the term of Greek origin that's both religious and academic.
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Note added at 1 hr (2013-03-01 23:54:13 GMT)
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Oh, by the way, acheiropoieta exist in Catholicism as well, e.g. Veronica's Veil.
Incidentally, if we were to use the religious terminology anyway and the context permitted it, I might suggest "acheiropoietic" - the term of Greek origin that's both religious and academic.
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Note added at 1 hr (2013-03-01 23:54:13 GMT)
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Oh, by the way, acheiropoieta exist in Catholicism as well, e.g. Veronica's Veil.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Anton. Acheiropioeta definitely checks out as a name for all those icons, but it may be a little too much of a good thing for me here. As always, you are a well of knowledge, and I mean this literally. Once again, thanks. |
7 hrs
providential memorial
13 hrs
My monument is built of no earthy stuff
к нему не заростет... :)
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Note added at 17 hrs (2013-03-02 15:38:17 GMT)
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yes, "ly", of course, sorry
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Note added at 20 hrs (2013-03-02 18:38:51 GMT)
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Dio mio! The comments in the discussion!
It's a poem, by god, not a technical report on services rendered and due! It also has its own rythm!
I hereby certified that the qulity of my work is such that it may be considered a memorial without actually consisting of any tangible/material substance.
Better still: I built myself a monument, but not with hands. With what then? I am afraid of the answer!
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Note added at 17 hrs (2013-03-02 15:38:17 GMT)
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yes, "ly", of course, sorry
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Note added at 20 hrs (2013-03-02 18:38:51 GMT)
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Dio mio! The comments in the discussion!
It's a poem, by god, not a technical report on services rendered and due! It also has its own rythm!
I hereby certified that the qulity of my work is such that it may be considered a memorial without actually consisting of any tangible/material substance.
Better still: I built myself a monument, but not with hands. With what then? I am afraid of the answer!
Note from asker:
Thanks, Michael, You meant earthly, I take? There's another monumental line!:) |
Earthy works too, BTW, with a kind of morbid necrological twist, wouldn't you say? There's absolutely more ways than one to skin a cat. Cheers, Michael. |
Discussion
What needs my Shakespeare for his honored bones
The labor of an age in piled stones?
Or that his hallowed relics should be hid
Under a star-ypointing pyramid?
Dear son of memory, great heir of fame,
What need'st thou such weak witness of thy name?
Thou in our wonder and astonishment
Has built thyself a livelong monument.
For whilst, to the shame of slow-endeavoring art,
Thy easy numbers flow, and that each heart
Hath from the leaves of thy unvalued book
Those Delphic lines with deep impression took;
Then thou, our fancy of itself bereaving,
Dost make us marble with too much conceiving,
And so sepulchred in such pomp dost lie
That kings for such a tomb would wish to die.
Not marble, nor the gilded monuments
Of princes, shall outlive this powerful rhyme;
But you shall shine more bright in these contents
Than unswept stone, besmear'd with sluttish time.
When wasteful war shall statues overturn,
And broils root out the work of masonry,
Nor Mars his sword nor war's quick fire shall burn
The living record of your memory.
'Gainst death and all oblivious enmity
Shall you pace forth; your praise shall still find room,
Even in the eyes of all posterity
That wear this world out to the ending doom.
So, till the judgment that yourself arise,
You live in this, and dwell in lovers' eyes.
(Sonnet 55)