Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
professions libérales (ou plutôt ceux qui les exercent)
English translation:
liberal professions / those offering professional services
Added to glossary by
agtranslat
Mar 1, 2004 12:53
20 yrs ago
24 viewers *
French term
Climate change,development,aid
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, Spanish to French
profession libérales (ou plutôt ceux qui les exercent)
French to English
Social Sciences
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
What would be the equivalent in the UK:
Do you think self-employed would cover it?
Thanks in anticipation,
Corinne
Do you think self-employed would cover it?
Thanks in anticipation,
Corinne
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
agtranslat
Netherlands
Netherlands
Specializes in field
Netherlands
Castilian native, no nonsense
Native in: Spanish 
Works in: Dutch to Spanish, English to Spanish, French to Spanish
Related KudoZ points
:
4
French term (edited):
profession lib�rales (ou plut�t ceux qui les exercent)
Selected
liberal professions/those offering professional services
These links may be of interest to you:
inbox
... For a liberal profession, it is an enduring scandal that seven out of eight UK ... of
pay - the sine qua non of proper childcare, especially in London - is not a ...
www.spa.uk.net/inbox.htm - 49k - Cached - Similar pages
The liberal professions mentioned in Annex F(2) to the Sixth Directive 77/388 are activities which involve a marked intellectual character, require a high-level qualification and are usually subject to clear and strict professional regulation. In the exercise of such an activity, the personal element is of special importance and such exercise always involves a large measure of independence in the accomplishment of the professional activities."
http://www.tax.nl/en/docs/Cases European Court of Justice du...
It has come to the attention of the Service that the French tax authorities are interpreting the term `the exercise of a liberal profession' as used in Article 10 of the convention as applying to an individual whose profession is not of a commercial nature and who is exercising that profession on his own account and not as an employee of another or under a contract of employment. Recently, the Service was advised that those authorities deem it inexpedient to change that interpretation.
http://www.taxlinks.com/rulings/1964/revrul64-92.htm
3.8 Liberal Professions
3.8.1 The OECD's definition of the Liberal Professions, is as follows:
3.8.1.1 "A Liberal Profession is characterised essentially by moral and financial independence, a high level of education and practical training, and a code of conduct"
3.8.2 The definition given in the statutes of the International Association of SEPLIS is as follows:
3.8.2.1 "The Liberal Professions ... are those whose exercise, whatsoever the legal form in which they are accomplished, reserves to their authors the independence of, and personal liability for, their professional actions "
http://www.vugtk.cz/CLGE/documents/stannard/capter3.html#8
inbox
... For a liberal profession, it is an enduring scandal that seven out of eight UK ... of
pay - the sine qua non of proper childcare, especially in London - is not a ...
www.spa.uk.net/inbox.htm - 49k - Cached - Similar pages
The liberal professions mentioned in Annex F(2) to the Sixth Directive 77/388 are activities which involve a marked intellectual character, require a high-level qualification and are usually subject to clear and strict professional regulation. In the exercise of such an activity, the personal element is of special importance and such exercise always involves a large measure of independence in the accomplishment of the professional activities."
http://www.tax.nl/en/docs/Cases European Court of Justice du...
It has come to the attention of the Service that the French tax authorities are interpreting the term `the exercise of a liberal profession' as used in Article 10 of the convention as applying to an individual whose profession is not of a commercial nature and who is exercising that profession on his own account and not as an employee of another or under a contract of employment. Recently, the Service was advised that those authorities deem it inexpedient to change that interpretation.
http://www.taxlinks.com/rulings/1964/revrul64-92.htm
3.8 Liberal Professions
3.8.1 The OECD's definition of the Liberal Professions, is as follows:
3.8.1.1 "A Liberal Profession is characterised essentially by moral and financial independence, a high level of education and practical training, and a code of conduct"
3.8.2 The definition given in the statutes of the International Association of SEPLIS is as follows:
3.8.2.1 "The Liberal Professions ... are those whose exercise, whatsoever the legal form in which they are accomplished, reserves to their authors the independence of, and personal liability for, their professional actions "
http://www.vugtk.cz/CLGE/documents/stannard/capter3.html#8
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks,
I wish I had found this information before! I did not know this expression was used in English, but it obviously is, and the context fits exactly mine. Many thanks to all for all your input and have a great day!
Corinne"
-2
1 min
self-employed
sounds good to me!
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Vicky Papaprodromou
20 mins
|
| neutral |
Jonathan MacKerron
: you can be a self-employed janitor, but does that make you a professional?
38 mins
|
|
Good point. So why not self-employed professionals?
|
|
| neutral |
Richard Nice
: as Jonathan says, you need to indicate both self-employed and highly trained white-collar (used to be reserved for doctor, pharmacist and lawyer)
41 mins
|
|
I agree. Is now used more widely, though. How about self-employed professionals?
|
|
| disagree |
Tom Bishop
: Members of the liberal professions are not necessarily self-employed.
4 hrs
|
| disagree |
Hacene
: as TJ Bishop said, also self employed are not forcefully professionals
6 hrs
|
| disagree |
Jean-Claude Gouin
: I agree with Jonathan, Tom and Hacene ...
12 hrs
|
15 mins
Cristina Giannetti
A passion for languages and translation
Native in: Italian 
Works in: English to Italian, French to Italian
free lancer
maybe
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Note added at 2004-03-01 13:11:51 (GMT)
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PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
- professioni liberali
Translation I found on the European Union website
On 28 October 2003, the Competition Directorate General of the European Commission will hold a Conference on the \"Regulation of Professional Services\" in the EU. The event will provide an opportunity for business, consumers and the professions to discuss the need for and effects of professional rules that impact on competition.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-03-03 10:16:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
TAKE A LOOK AT THIS LINK
Competition Policy and Liberal Professions
Liberal professions is one of the main areas of activity for DG Competition. In March 2003, DG Competition launched a stocktaking exercise for professional services. The purpose of the exercise is to consider the justification for and effects of restrictive rules and regulations in the professions. The overall context is that in Lisbon in 2000 the European Council set for the EU the ambitious goal of becoming the most competitive and dynamic knowledge-based economy in the world by 2010.
See also Report on Competition in Professional Services
This webpage provides information about this on-going project, including details on the Liberal Professions Conference held in Brussels 28 October 2003 and the Liberal Professions Study . It also contains links to key speeches and policy documents .
The Liberal Professions
The liberal professions can generally be defined as occupations requiring special training in the arts or sciences. These include lawyers, notaries, accountants, architects, engineers and pharmacists. Across the EU, the professions are subject to regulations such as fee scales, advertising restrictions, exclusive rights and rules prohibiting inter-professional co-operation.
In a speech to the Bundesanwaltskammer of 21 March 2003, Commissioner Mario Monti set out his concerns regarding the potential effects of these rules. As he explained, professional services constitute a large part of the EU economy and have knock on effects on the competitiveness of a wide range of other sectors. Highly restrictive regulation in the professions may be having a negative impact on employment and growth.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-03-01 13:11:51 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
- professioni liberali
Translation I found on the European Union website
On 28 October 2003, the Competition Directorate General of the European Commission will hold a Conference on the \"Regulation of Professional Services\" in the EU. The event will provide an opportunity for business, consumers and the professions to discuss the need for and effects of professional rules that impact on competition.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-03-03 10:16:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
TAKE A LOOK AT THIS LINK
Competition Policy and Liberal Professions
Liberal professions is one of the main areas of activity for DG Competition. In March 2003, DG Competition launched a stocktaking exercise for professional services. The purpose of the exercise is to consider the justification for and effects of restrictive rules and regulations in the professions. The overall context is that in Lisbon in 2000 the European Council set for the EU the ambitious goal of becoming the most competitive and dynamic knowledge-based economy in the world by 2010.
See also Report on Competition in Professional Services
This webpage provides information about this on-going project, including details on the Liberal Professions Conference held in Brussels 28 October 2003 and the Liberal Professions Study . It also contains links to key speeches and policy documents .
The Liberal Professions
The liberal professions can generally be defined as occupations requiring special training in the arts or sciences. These include lawyers, notaries, accountants, architects, engineers and pharmacists. Across the EU, the professions are subject to regulations such as fee scales, advertising restrictions, exclusive rights and rules prohibiting inter-professional co-operation.
In a speech to the Bundesanwaltskammer of 21 March 2003, Commissioner Mario Monti set out his concerns regarding the potential effects of these rules. As he explained, professional services constitute a large part of the EU economy and have knock on effects on the competitiveness of a wide range of other sectors. Highly restrictive regulation in the professions may be having a negative impact on employment and growth.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Vicky Papaprodromou
6 mins
|
| agree |
Sara Freitas
: or freelance professionals
40 mins
|
| disagree |
Tom Bishop
: "Liberal professions" does not in any way imply freelance. One does not normally refer to freelance architects, doctors, lawyers, etc. and many of them are not self-employed.
3 hrs
|
|
I've added a note to my answer : professional services
|
|
| disagree |
Hacene
: as TJ said
6 hrs
|
|
I've added a note to my answer: professional services
|
+2
18 mins
the professions
More context would be helpful, check out this link and others in Google.
Families, Courts and Communities: Collaboration for the 21st ... - [ Traduzca esta página ]
... breaking down barriers between the professions and giving ... groups of solicitors and
barristers observed by ... provide court-funded interpreters whenever required ...
www.familycourt.gov.au/papers/html/glare.html - 89k - En caché - Páginas similares
Good luck.
Ana
Families, Courts and Communities: Collaboration for the 21st ... - [ Traduzca esta página ]
... breaking down barriers between the professions and giving ... groups of solicitors and
barristers observed by ... provide court-funded interpreters whenever required ...
www.familycourt.gov.au/papers/html/glare.html - 89k - En caché - Páginas similares
Good luck.
Ana
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Warmer. The "professions" are generally a little mor restrictive than the term "liberal professions". The former tends to include medical and legal profressions for example, but not necessairly translators.
31 mins
|
| agree |
sktrans
: confirmed by Harrap's
5 hrs
|
| agree |
ZIL (X)
1 day 21 hrs
|
46 mins
Richard Nice
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Specializes in field
Germany
translator of Bourdieu...
Native in: English (Variants: New Zealand, UK, Australian, US, Canadian, British)
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
French term (edited):
profession lib�rales (ou plut�t ceux qui les exercent)
depends on context
we need to know, if possible, what kind of work these people do in order to know how this term is being used. Some self-employed work is covered by the categories "artisan" or "travailleur indépendant"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jonathan MacKerron
: if you had read my references you would understand that the reference to "salaried professional" makes clear the the proper "professional" is not salaried
8 mins
|
|
point taken!
|
-1
27 mins
Jonathan MacKerron
Native in English
Retired as of Jan 2019!
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
6
French term (edited):
profession lib�rales (ou plut�t ceux qui les exercent)
professionals
to describe the people who exercise a profession
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2004-03-01 13:20:58 GMT)
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\"professional persons\" according to Harrap\'s
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Note added at 28 mins (2004-03-01 13:22:23 GMT)
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Webster says of professional \"one who belongs to one of the learned professions or is in an occupation requiring a high level of training and proficiency *many highly trained salaried professionals R.K.Burns* *large corporations are absorbing more and more professionals M.L.Cogan* b : one with sufficient authority or practical experience in an area of knowledge or endeavor to resemble a professional *though an amateur in politics he had been a professional in diplomacy Time\"
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Note added at 48 mins (2004-03-01 13:42:14 GMT)
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Robert: \"de caractère intellectuel (architecte, avocat, médecin, etc.), que l\'on exerce librement ou sous le seul contrôle d\'une organisation professionnelle\"
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Note added at 27 mins (2004-03-01 13:20:58 GMT)
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\"professional persons\" according to Harrap\'s
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2004-03-01 13:22:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Webster says of professional \"one who belongs to one of the learned professions or is in an occupation requiring a high level of training and proficiency *many highly trained salaried professionals R.K.Burns* *large corporations are absorbing more and more professionals M.L.Cogan* b : one with sufficient authority or practical experience in an area of knowledge or endeavor to resemble a professional *though an amateur in politics he had been a professional in diplomacy Time\"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2004-03-01 13:42:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Robert: \"de caractère intellectuel (architecte, avocat, médecin, etc.), que l\'on exerce librement ou sous le seul contrôle d\'une organisation professionnelle\"
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Richard Nice
: if employed would not be "libéral" (as Sara interpreted, I mean: for example, French doctors fight furiously to avoid becoming state employees)
13 mins
|
|
I don't get your point??
|
|
| disagree |
Sara Freitas
: I think Richard is referring to your example "highly trained salaried professionals"...doesn't fit in here as we are talking about freelance professionals...
28 mins
|
| agree |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
: right....I would NOT use the adjective liberals...a professional can be Freelance or salaried.....this is the term, in the US, we sometimes say independent professionals
53 mins
|
| agree |
sarahl (X)
: exactly.
8 hrs
|
| disagree |
Gabrielle Leyden
: See Robert def. (doctors, lawyers, architects, etc.) - usually "professions"
3 days 9 hrs
|
+2
56 mins
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Works in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
12
members of the liberal professions, those exercising as professionals and freelancers
The term is difficult to describe axactly. The same term does of course exist in English but is more restrictive than the French, English generally using the term to describe members of the medical and legal professions for example. "Self-employed" is inaccurate and "freelancer" excludes the medical and so on.
Either stick with the linguistic equivalent and/or add to it as suggested.
Either stick with the linguistic equivalent and/or add to it as suggested.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Sara Freitas
: best option so far, IMO
1 min
|
| neutral |
Richard Nice
: But INSEE would not classsify them under p.l. if employed fully by (eg) the State?
8 mins
|
|
In the case of doctors, for ex., if employed by the State, they are civil servants and still members of the medical profession. However, they'd not be exercising their profession "à titre libéral" thus not "liberal profession" if employee.
|
|
| agree |
Hacene
: or simply professional (for instance, when you fill in employment forms and they ask your status)
5 hrs
|
+2
8 hrs
French term (edited):
profession lib�rales (ou plut�t ceux qui les exercent)
independent professionals
That is what I would use.
As in:
ESBA welcomes full members and associate members. Full members. National associations of small businesses, self-employed, craftsmen and independent professionals; ...
www.esba-europe.org/Vzhc1CKtZh6kcnjBqcCY1Xns/ EN/About_ESBA/Joining_ESBA.aspx
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs 21 mins (2004-03-01 21:15:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
\"Exercer en libéral\" in France has a farily broad meaning corresponding more to \"independent\" than to strictly self-employed.
See for ex.: http://www.lentreprise.com/article/9.496.1.156.html
As in:
ESBA welcomes full members and associate members. Full members. National associations of small businesses, self-employed, craftsmen and independent professionals; ...
www.esba-europe.org/Vzhc1CKtZh6kcnjBqcCY1Xns/ EN/About_ESBA/Joining_ESBA.aspx
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs 21 mins (2004-03-01 21:15:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
\"Exercer en libéral\" in France has a farily broad meaning corresponding more to \"independent\" than to strictly self-employed.
See for ex.: http://www.lentreprise.com/article/9.496.1.156.html
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Charlie Bavington
: if there's no room or need to explain more fully, then I'd probably go for this too.
5 hrs
|
| agree |
Peter Freckleton
1 day 14 hrs
|
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