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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

XXX€ hors taxe de forfait

English translation:

flat fee of €XXX before VAT / excluding tax

Added to glossary by Séverine Watson
Dec 14, 2022 14:36
1 yr ago
32 viewers *
French term

Taxe de forfait

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
I'm translating an agreement that assigns a series of IP rights over photos.

In the remuneration clause, I have the following:

En contrepartie de la Mission, les Parties ont convenu que les montants suivants seront versés :
- XXX € *hors taxe de forfait* pour les frais de production et d’hébergement qui seront supportés par le Photographe dans le cadre de la Mission.

I'm struggling to find a definition in French for this term and that's complicating things for the translation.

I'm assuming the 'forfait' here is the package deal that the Photographer is seeking in return for their services. But I have my doubts.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 flat fee of €XXX before VAT

Discussion

Conor McAuley Dec 14, 2022:
Hmmm! Learn something every day! Thanks Mr A. and Séverine!

I don't remember ever billing an NZ client but that may actually come in handy sometime, I'll wow them with my local knowledge!
Séverine Watson (asker) Dec 14, 2022:
@Bourth re: GST GST is also used in Canada, and there are actually three types of sales tax over there! https://www.retailcouncil.org/resources/quick-facts/sales-ta...
Bourth Dec 14, 2022:
@ Connor In NZ GST is what they call VAT.
Bourth Dec 14, 2022:
@ Séverine True. In the majority of cases it's just VAT, but you are right to be wary. The only other tax I can think of off-hand is the 'taxe de séjour' on hotel accommodation, etc. but there will indeed be others in special situations. It's entirely possible that photography is one of those professions where special taxes (intellectual property, etc., who knows) may apply.
Conor McAuley Dec 14, 2022:
I've yet to come across an example where "hors taxe" does not exclusively refer to VAT (sales tax in the USA), but it's always worth considering (for example, is the recycling "charge" on white goods a tax?).

I'm not aware of what GST but I'll research it.
Séverine Watson (asker) Dec 14, 2022:
@Bourth Oh my, yes I have, and I clearly need to have a break.

Just out of curiosity, I noticed you put 'excluding VAT' for 'hors taxe', would that not be too restrictive and exclude the notion of GST (Goods & Services Tax) or sales tax? I'd be tempted to put "excluding tax" and be done with it. Thoughts?
Bourth Dec 14, 2022:
@Mpoma It seems to me that the only thing excluded (but only from the indicated price) by "hors" is "taxe", i.e. VAT, which will of course be added to the final cost. See my proposal above.
Séverine Watson (asker) Dec 14, 2022:
@Mpoma I saw 'taxe' and immediately thought of 'tax', but couldn't think of an alternative for the life of me and that threw me for the rest! 'Flat-rate charges' make much more sense here. Thank you!
Mpoma Dec 14, 2022:
plus flat-rate charge ... more literally "*excluding* flat-rate charge", i.e. this charge will be added to XXX €.

Proposed translations

+5
1 hr
Selected

flat fee of €XXX before VAT

You've parsed it wrongly.

Read "XXX € hors taxe **de forfait pour les frais de production** et d’hébergement qui seront supportés par le Photographe"

So "flat fee of €XXX before VAT for production and hosting costs ..."

Compare to an auctioneer's fees:
"Les frais à la charge du vendeur
[Pour les] Ventes de prestige et ventes de spécialités [ , ]
Nous prélevons 10% d’honoraires hors taxes (12% TTC) sur le montant adjugé et 5% hors taxes de forfait de participation à la publicité de la vente (6% TTC)'


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2022-12-14 23:19:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re. 'before VAT'.
I probably generally use 'excl. VAT' myself, but 'before VAT' is certainly possible, as used in the image below by His (even if it was Hers at the time) Majesty's Govt. I've encountered people who thought "excluding VAT" meant no VAT would be charged. 'Before VAT' is a more positive way of expressing its inevitability.
Peer comment(s):
agree Mpoma : Doh. Somewhat tend to concur with Séverine's point though: I use "excl. tax" ("inc. tax" for TTC): covers all bases.
37 mins
See my added note re. 'before VAT'.
agree Conor McAuley
37 mins
agree philgoddard : Yes, it's VAT. Wouldn't we normally say "plus VAT"?
45 mins
What's normal? ;-) See my added note re. 'before VAT'.
neutral Daryo : agree about the wrong parsing, but I can't remember seeing anyhing other than "excl. VAT" on any actual invoice, or quote.
1 hr
See my added note re. 'before VAT'.
agree AllegroTrans : I'm for "excl. VAT"
17 hrs
OK, I'm surrounded and outnumbered.
agree Steve Robbie : "Ex VAT" is pretty common in the UK, I tend to use that // Not that I have any objection at all to "before"!
18 hrs
Thanks. Indeed, the image I posted above also shows 'amount exclusive of VAT'.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks very much!"
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