Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
He stepped on six gray (grey) flagstones
English answer:
He stepped on six gray (grey) flagstones
Added to glossary by
Will Matter
Dec 23, 2004 06:44
19 yrs ago
English term
Please help with the sentence
English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
children's literature
The Traveler did not go directly over to the King; he first stepped one by one on six gray flagstones, then edged along the wall stepping on six blue stones, and then finally went along six black ones towards the center of the hall.
The context:
A magician has come to the King's hall. He does not go straight to the King for he knows there might be traps beneath the floor.
This is my translation of a Russian fantasy for children.
Please help with the structure - it seems a bit awkward to me. Could anyone propose any other ways to get across the same idea? Could it be put in a more appropriate way?
Please ignore the first part before the semicolon, for it seems OK. The part AFTER the semicolon is what I'm trying to polish.
The context:
A magician has come to the King's hall. He does not go straight to the King for he knows there might be traps beneath the floor.
This is my translation of a Russian fantasy for children.
Please help with the structure - it seems a bit awkward to me. Could anyone propose any other ways to get across the same idea? Could it be put in a more appropriate way?
Please ignore the first part before the semicolon, for it seems OK. The part AFTER the semicolon is what I'm trying to polish.
Responses
Responses
+5
11 mins
Selected
He stepped on six gray (grey) flagstones
The whole thing should read: "He stepped on six gray (grey) flagstones, one by one, then he edged along the wall by stepping on six blue (flag)stones and, finally, he went along six black (flag)stones towards the center of the hall". This is natural, colloquial and correct English. "Gray" can be spelled either way and you can say "stones" or "flagstones" for everything in parentheses. HTH.
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Note added at 2004-12-23 18:50:11 (GMT)
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Note: I\'m a native English speaker (American) so this example should fit your needs.
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Note added at 2004-12-23 18:50:11 (GMT)
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Note: I\'m a native English speaker (American) so this example should fit your needs.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
bigedsenior
15 mins
|
Gracias, amigo.
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agree |
Michele Fauble
2 hrs
|
Thank you.
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agree |
airmailrpl
: -
5 hrs
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Obrigado, thanks.
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agree |
NancyLynn
7 hrs
|
Thanks, merci.
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agree |
Java Cafe
10 hrs
|
Ozasro dhanyabad ;)
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agree |
mportal
15 hrs
|
Thanks, merci. Happy holidays.
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disagree |
Refugio
: Delete "by", "toward" for American English, and "went along" doesn't really flow.//I don't doubt that you are a native speaker, but are you actually living in the US to be aware of current usage?
20 hrs
|
.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks a lot for your help! And thanks to everyone! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!"
+3
38 mins
?
I can't see anything wrong with it as it stands except that gray should be spelt grey for a colour (gray is the spelling of the surname), IMO. In fact the slightly broken style tends to suit the hesitant approach of the magician.
I also strongly disagree with people who start talking about "correct" English where it has to do with style. There is no such thing as "correct style".
Find your own style and if it works, stick to it.
You could take almost any sentence you like from modern English literature, post it here and watch how many people will start crawling all over in an attempt to exhibit their academic superiority.
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Note added at 5 hrs 18 mins (2004-12-23 12:03:29 GMT)
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Please also remember that a native English reader will not read your sentence/book word by word as a non-native might, they will scan it almost subconsciously and \"absorb\" it. Any mistakes or incongruity of grammar/style will interrupt this scanning process and raise a questiong eyebrow....mistake here! Whereas a non-native, when confronted with extremes of style, MAY try to align the text to the \"model\" they have thus far learned and may assume the text to be \"badly\" or \"wrongly\" written if it doesn\'t fit this model.
I also strongly disagree with people who start talking about "correct" English where it has to do with style. There is no such thing as "correct style".
Find your own style and if it works, stick to it.
You could take almost any sentence you like from modern English literature, post it here and watch how many people will start crawling all over in an attempt to exhibit their academic superiority.
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Note added at 5 hrs 18 mins (2004-12-23 12:03:29 GMT)
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Please also remember that a native English reader will not read your sentence/book word by word as a non-native might, they will scan it almost subconsciously and \"absorb\" it. Any mistakes or incongruity of grammar/style will interrupt this scanning process and raise a questiong eyebrow....mistake here! Whereas a non-native, when confronted with extremes of style, MAY try to align the text to the \"model\" they have thus far learned and may assume the text to be \"badly\" or \"wrongly\" written if it doesn\'t fit this model.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Krisztina Lelik
: You are right!
1 hr
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Thanks.
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neutral |
Nesrin
: "Gray" is the American variant of the British "grey" (www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/2284/)
2 hrs
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You don't say? I'm afraid I tend to assume UK English unless question states otherwise.
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agree |
airmailrpl
: -
3 hrs
|
Thanks.
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agree |
juvera
: I agree with every word you wrote.
7 hrs
|
Thank you.
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agree |
RHELLER
: with There is no such thing as "correct style" but wonder why you are making a snide remark about "academic superiority"
10 hrs
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Snide is your perception of it, Rita. I think you know very well what I mean- you've been around long enough.
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disagree |
zaphod
: Wow, and I've heard some good ones at the New York Times. I thought you were against people trying to sound academic, sorry pedantic.
16 hrs
|
What's New York Times please? An American fantasy for children?
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agree |
Charlie Bavington
: and excellent comment about the broken style suiting the scene.
16 hrs
|
Thank you Charlie. I wasn't being facetious either, I wish I was half as good going out of my native language.
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disagree |
James Girard
: colour or color? British or American? The intended audience makes the difference without much further explantion necessary
18 hrs
|
I really don't believe these small spelling differences are serious enough to spoil the plot. But obviously serious enough to risk spoiling this question.
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neutral |
Will Matter
: "Gray" IS the spelling of the color and for names i seem to remember both Greystoke & Earl Grey as being UK usage.
22 hrs
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+1
3 hrs
It's the first part that is the problem
I have no problem with the structure of the second part, or of the spelling of 'gray' or 'grey'. The question in my mind is -why- the traveler did not take the direct path to the king and had to step on all those particular flagstones. I think that should be explained either in the first part of the sentence, or in the sentence before (which perhaps it is, but, we don't see that in the example). Otherwise, it's fine.
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Note added at 11 hrs 35 mins (2004-12-23 18:20:31 GMT)
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In response to your further inquiry, since your audience is American, then \'gray\' is perfectly acceptable as color. \'grey\' is simply not one of the American Crayola crayon colors. This from their website:
\"Crayola® Crayons - 12 Large - Refill (Gray)
Box contains 12 Gray crayons. Use these to replenish your supply of popular colors!
Recommended for Kids: Under 5\"
It\'s what Americans grow up with. Using \'grey\' as a color in the context of a children\'s story would have American kids scratching their heads.
HTH!
-JAG
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Note added at 11 hrs 38 mins (2004-12-23 18:23:33 GMT)
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BTW: Crayola\'s website page where I got the reference
http://www.crayola.com/canwehelp/result.cfm
Scroll down through the colors...
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Note added at 11 hrs 35 mins (2004-12-23 18:20:31 GMT)
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In response to your further inquiry, since your audience is American, then \'gray\' is perfectly acceptable as color. \'grey\' is simply not one of the American Crayola crayon colors. This from their website:
\"Crayola® Crayons - 12 Large - Refill (Gray)
Box contains 12 Gray crayons. Use these to replenish your supply of popular colors!
Recommended for Kids: Under 5\"
It\'s what Americans grow up with. Using \'grey\' as a color in the context of a children\'s story would have American kids scratching their heads.
HTH!
-JAG
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Note added at 11 hrs 38 mins (2004-12-23 18:23:33 GMT)
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BTW: Crayola\'s website page where I got the reference
http://www.crayola.com/canwehelp/result.cfm
Scroll down through the colors...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
airmailrpl
: Otherwise, it's fine.
6 mins
|
neutral |
Gareth McMillan
: ? kids in America have to be under 5 inches to use grey crayons?
11 hrs
|
+1
11 hrs
attempt below
The Traveler didn't walk directly up to the King. Instead, he stepped one by one on six gray flagstones, then edged his way along the wall, stepping only on six blue ones. Finally, he followed six black flagstones toward the center of the hall.
Hello! I just split it up a bit, made a couple of very minor style changes, and changed the spelling of "towards" - US spelling is "toward" - to match the rest.
Good luck!
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Note added at 11 hrs 17 mins (2004-12-23 18:02:06 GMT)
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By the way - it already sounds a damn sight better than some of the stuff I get to proofread, so please don\'t worry about it not being \"correct\" style! I think it\'s pretty much fine the way it is ;-)
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Note added at 12 hrs 33 mins (2004-12-23 19:17:46 GMT)
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By the way - it already sounds a damn sight better than some of the stuff I get to proofread, so please don\'t worry about it not being \"correct\" style! I think it\'s pretty much fine the way it is ;-)
Hello! I just split it up a bit, made a couple of very minor style changes, and changed the spelling of "towards" - US spelling is "toward" - to match the rest.
Good luck!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs 17 mins (2004-12-23 18:02:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
By the way - it already sounds a damn sight better than some of the stuff I get to proofread, so please don\'t worry about it not being \"correct\" style! I think it\'s pretty much fine the way it is ;-)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs 33 mins (2004-12-23 19:17:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
By the way - it already sounds a damn sight better than some of the stuff I get to proofread, so please don\'t worry about it not being \"correct\" style! I think it\'s pretty much fine the way it is ;-)
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Will Matter
: U.S. usage is "towards" also.
48 mins
|
hehe "towards" is actually a variant of "toward" in US Eng. And that's a reason to give my whole sentence a "neutral"? Bah humbug ;-)
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agree |
Gareth McMillan
: Hope the questioner sees a move toward(s) consensus here.
3 hrs
|
+1
17 hrs
it's fine but
It's truly fine. The use of "then.....and then" is great. Stop start - builds up a little tension etc. Just backing up Gareth's comment, really.
One minor point, and it may be irrelevant because of what comes before it (e.g. a description of the floor). Or it may just be me. But I had to read it twice to realise that the gray flagstones were heading towards the wall.
Otherwise, it's fine, really.
One minor point, and it may be irrelevant because of what comes before it (e.g. a description of the floor). Or it may just be me. But I had to read it twice to realise that the gray flagstones were heading towards the wall.
Otherwise, it's fine, really.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Gareth McMillan
: It catches the interest, doesn't it? I'd like to read the rest of the story when it's finished. //Shouldn't that be "uz" lot (USE)? (heh, heh).
36 mins
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Yeah, it sounds like an interesting tale. And Andrew's use of English is well nigh impeccable, like you said before. I dunno why he bothers asking us lot...!!
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21 hrs
The traveler did not approach the King directly. Instead, he first stepped on six gray flagstones,
one by one; then he edged along the six blue stones that bordered the wall; and finally, he walked (carefully) across six black stones toward the center of the hall.
"toward" for English American-style
three different verbs if you want variety
"toward" for English American-style
three different verbs if you want variety
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Will Matter
: Yes. it absolutely is a matter of usage. I'm aware of current U.S. usage & both "by" & "towards" are correct. Your self-perceived "flow" is irrelevant, the goal is to give the asker an answer that's as close to the original as possible.
2 hrs
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See my comment above. Did I mention any "rules"? It is simply a matter of usage. We are well aware that the Brits say "towards", and it doesn't trouble us.
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agree |
Judith Kerman
: For style and fluidity, this one gets my vote.
1 day 1 hr
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Thank you, Judith! Happy holidays.
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Discussion